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Author Topic: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle  (Read 2962 times)

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« on: October 07, 2016, 11:02:27 PM »
Hi all. So, with weather getting worse here, I am resorting to trying to fire up my older Fox 35 engine that I bought and cleaned up about 15 years ago. Here is where the problem begins. It is all with the needle. It is an older tapered needle, flat on one side, and has a slight bend to it. Is there an easy way to straighten it out to use it, or is there any alternatives? It goes in most of the way easily, but near the end, it gets tighter and harder to turn. I will probably just try running the engine as is, but would like to straighten the needle if possible. The engine was running when I bought it I was told, and I will believe the gentleman. Thank you.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2016, 11:24:18 PM »
Here are 2 pictures of the engine in case it makes a difference.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 11:24:55 PM »
And number 2.

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2016, 02:48:51 AM »
         Chancey. the needle your making reference about was discontinued some years back. Your engine is from the 1980's. It predates the 40th anniversary engine which became available in and around the mid 80's.  The replacement needle that Fox sold was the full tapered needle. While it does screw in and works, I've had some issues with it in SOME spraybars. Some of the spraybars over the years have changed slightly in appearance. Some had black oxide finish, others brass, and  some were plated. Depending on the years they were made the replacement does one or two things. It either works, or it's barely hanging on by a thread or two to allow it to run correctly. It's not uncommon to have any Fox needle break off especially in a inverted landing. Essentially there's two knobs on the needle, one for the ratchet clicker and one for your fingers to turn. I always cut them off above the ratchet clicker and bend into a J to avoid bending. The needle are dead soft, if you try and bend them back, they will break. They break at the first thread on the needle just at the start of the taper. Typically they're broken off in the spraybar leaving the tapered portion inside and the rest snaps off. I'm not going to say it's impossible to straighten. However, due to the poor quality of the entire assembly, it's far better to improve your engine runs by just replacing it in it's entirety. Seeing that Fox has been out of the engine industry for a few years now, EBAY has been a fairly good source to find needles. Omni models / Tower Hobbies has had Fox needle on Buy It Now auctions  recently. I don't know where they're finding them, but they just recently went out of stock with a supply of over 75. I would keep an eye out or post on here for a new in the package one.

               In my opinion, the best needle to use is a Randy Smith needle. For the cost, there's nothing better. Randy might not have these in stock but it's certainly worth asking. I've seen new in the package Fox needles sell for just as much as a Randy needle so it's pretty much pointless to buy a Fox needle. RSM also sells a Super Tiger copy which is designed for the Fox. I have no experience with that needle. Super Tiger the originals were very large in comparison to the Fox which could rob some needed rpm's if used. I assume the offering from RSM is the correct throat diameter. If you take out your stock Fox spraybar you will note that the center is turned down, this is exactly how Randy Smith needles are done.  Ken


                
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 04:07:27 AM by kenneth cook »

Online Larry Renger

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2016, 08:10:09 PM »
I use the RSM needle assembly on all my Foxes, and they run just fine. Make sure the outlet hole is at least 15deg. below straight across the venturi. Yes, exactly 90 deg. is theoretically ideal, but going down 15 to even 45 deg has improved suction by actual test. There was an article on this in some issue years ago. 90 deg straight down works, but not quite so well.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2016, 10:20:34 PM »
Ok. As I am new to anything bigger than .049, and having only run RC engines larger, when referencing outlet hole in your post, could you please verify my picture. To me, this is how I see it.
A - red line is perpendicular to the venture
B - green line is parallel, or 90 degrees to the venture
C - blue lines, 15 - 45 degrees with improved suction by test

Again, this is how I am interpreting your post. If I am seeing or thinking this all wrong, please let me know so I can correct it. Thank you.

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 05:15:29 AM »
            The needle valve position on your stock spraybar is as follows. While Larry mentioned the Tiger clone, it has a single hole on the spraybar. The stock Fox has two holes. With your stock spraybar, Larry's suggestion is totally irrelevant. A stock Fox needle valve was groomed at the Fox factory with a hatchet. The holes typically don't line up as one would think. The first hole is drilled through and it's as if the bit walks when it exits. The end result is one hole is usually off center. The ideal placement of the Fox is so that when your looking down the venturi, you barely see the holes of either side. You just want to orientate it so that your just seeing the tops. Some will say that one should be slightly higher and I never found that to be ideal.

               The tiger needle has a single hole, the easiest way is to just line it up with the angle of the venturi stack. As I mentioned though, a tiger needle has a wider spraybar which takes up more venturi area thus a slight loss of power. Is this engine broken in? This is more critical than anything. Your experience will not be pleasant as these can be at times cantankerous to say the least. Ken

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 08:01:50 AM »
An easy way to remedy the larger Tigre needle is to file flats on it both sides of the hole.  This still leaves plenty of metal on the top and bottom for strength when tightening the spray bar nuts.  Leonard Newman's idea, by the way.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2016, 08:58:50 PM »
Gotch. Thank you.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2016, 07:19:00 PM »
Clancey,
Couple things about the old Fox that will make your life easier. First you can change the nva to the Randy Smith option, RSM or even an OS 35 - 40 FP nva. Trick is to seal around the mount boss with silicone sealer when you seat the spraybar nut. If you use a Fox nva you need to look at the spraybar holes as they are drilled below the centerline. This is to position the holes just below the 90 deg line in your drawing. They (the Fox nva) do work but you need to also seal the needle itself with a small piece of silicone fuel tubing between the spraybar seat and the ratchet clicker. Last, run the engine on 5 - 10% nitro with 25% oil (50/50 works well) and a 9x6 prop if you run a muffler.

I like the Fox for OTS and once I pulled back the prop from a 10x6 to the 9x6 with the muffler the motor runs in a nice lean 4 cycle and moves the ship nicely.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Older Fox 35 Engine Needle
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 09:36:32 PM »
Thank you for the advice. I have the Sig 5% nitro 25% all castor fuel here ready to go. I will take the needle out and install a piece of fuel tubing over it.

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