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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: Bill Morell on April 10, 2016, 01:32:16 PM
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Noticed that Shtterman has listed a new Enya 35 Classic. Looks a lot like the new 25. Case says that it is a 5224 so not sure if it is really any different from the old 5224 other than the red anodized head and prop drive? According to the listing it is double ball bearing. $149.
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Alberto Parra was enquiring if anyone was interested in the forthcoming Enya 35 stunt. I put my name down, but have heard nothing. The Enya site does not mention it, so I am at a loss to know quite what the new offering is. Can anyone tell me?
Andrew.
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Look at it on ebay. That's where I saw it.
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Alberto Parra was enquiring if anyone was interested in the forthcoming Enya 35 stunt. I put my name down, but have heard nothing. The Enya site does not mention it, so I am at a loss to know quite what the new offering is. Can anyone tell me?
Andrew.
Enya did make both a 29 and 35 BB engine and perhaps he is using up his old stock parts with some updated looks. They were fine running engines and I still have one of each that I used to run regularly.
Dennis
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I think Dennis is probably right about using up old stock - they've done that a few times in recent years. Bill, I don't think this one is really that similar to the 25 - Schnuerle vs baffle, totally different case etc. (The 'new' 25 isn't really that new, either - the 4301-series engines have been around since the 80s. The only really new bit is the ABC construction, since previously they were iron/steel or AAC.)
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This looks like the current SS 35 engine with a new head. That is a ringed engine, this one probably has the Nikasil (?) ABC innards to justify the red anodizing and price increase. Kind of what they did to the SS 25 and CSX 61. 8)
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If it is the Enya 35 built on the 25 case then the price increase was modest as the SS35 ringed was $139.99. I have a few of the SS35 and as usual they are excellent runners.
Dennis
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No, it's definitely based on the old-style .35 (it says 'Model 5224' on the case, after all). The SS25/30/35 case is completely different. I'll attach photos of the new 35 Classic, an SS35, and an old .35-III so you can see what I mean. (The 35-III in the picture is a plain-bearing, square venturi one, but you could also get a TBR version with a round venturi, just like this new Classic.)
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I agree with you. My first post was correct . I got a chance to look at the pictures and it is definitely the 5225 case. Anyone who gets one of these jewels will have a great runner for the rest of their modelling career.
Dennis
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There are no cooling fins on the head.
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Thanks for the close up. That's a real jewel of an engine. I have two 5224's-none currently assigned to a model but they have been used in quite a few, both profile and built-up, over the past 40 years. Run great. If they are "Chevy's" this one is a Cadillac fer shur! 8)
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Us CL guys REALLY need to support Enya and buy more of his engines! They are churning out works of art and acknowledge the existence of CL stunt to boot. I have the modern .61 and .40, and Balsa Butcher has a bunch of Enyas as well that he reports run very well. Need to keep suppliers like Enya in business. Plus, kinda cool to get an email from Ken Enya himself in response to inquiries about engines. This "new" .35 even if based on an older design is a beauty. Wish I did not already have more engines than I know what to do with.
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I suppose Mike you could always sell a handful of your used engines and put that money towards that pretty red head.
No one addressed Charles' observation that the head doesn't have fins. I can't imagine that to be a design flaw? Must be intentionally built that way.
The engine without muffler weighs 8.47 oz. according to the guy on eBay.
He couldn't tell me what the mufflers weigh.
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Design flaw? NOT! Let's not start unsubstantiated rumors here. One should give Kenn Enya some credit for being a creative, innovative and successful engine designer for, oh, the past 60 plus years. The head on this engine looks identical to that of the red head 61 CXL which also doesn't have fins and doesn't miss them at all. 8)
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Bottom line is that it is most likely a damn nice engine.
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ALL SOLD OUT on ebay.
I just checked.
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FWIW: Piston and liner are iron, just like the original 5224, long break in, last forever. That info is from the importer "Shtterman" on Da Bay. Glad to hear they sold out...a few 61 CXS' still available though. 8)
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Design flaw? NOT! Let's not start unsubstantiated rumors here. One should give Kenn Enya some credit for being a creative, innovative and successful engine designer for, oh, the past 60 plus years. The head on this engine looks identical to that of the red head 61 CXL which also doesn't have fins and doesn't miss them at all. 8)
I'm not starting any unsubstantiated rumours, and I am a bit offended that I'm being implicated of doing that. I'm simply asking a (stupid?) question that remains completely unanswered. My question was asked more for my own education on glow engines. A little leeway in wording consideration would be nice. People (and me) should be given the benefit of the doubt. Conversations in text leave much to the interpretation, and that should be kept in mind. I did say that I can't imagine it to be a design flaw. That in itself (should) imply that it's a question as to why it was made that way; there must be a reason.
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Sorry Chris, didn't mean to sound so negative. Just a little sensitive over Enya as they are one few current makers of stunt ready/worthy engines, even if they sometimes they are not readily available. I also have seen how internet speculation and rumors can be repeated until they are considered fact. No fins on the head should not even be an issue, and it's not. I did copy your response that you don't think it is a design flaw, I agree with that statement.
As to your other request, I weighed an Enya Ultra-Lite muffler. This one from a 40 XZS but looks to be the same as the 35. It weighs 1.5 ounces which compares favorably to the most popular aftermarket tube muffler which weighs in at 1.2 ounces. Both are much lighter than the standard OS mufflers which weigh from 1.7 to over 2.3 ounces (for the popular 2030 model). 8)
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All good, balsa butcher.
I just wanted to make sure everyone here knows my comment is a inquiry/curiosity, not a negative statement.
Thanks for the info on the muffler. I do know that the standard os muffler weighs over 2oz on my 40fp.
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Thanks, glad we got that straightened out. Just out of curiosity I weighed an original 35 5224-8.1 ounces. A little lighter than the re-issue undoubtedly due to the muffler lugs and ball bearing construction of the new one. The added .2 ounces or so are a reasonable trade off IMHO.
Idea :! If the 35 red-head ever becomes available as a spare part, wonder how it would work on a vintage 5224? I may have to try it (if the price is right). It would be an interesting experiment. 8)
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Chris, for what it's worth, the recent 61CXL also has no fins on top of the head, and nor did the .45 "Baldy", which was highly regarded back in the '60s. Doesn't seem to have been a problem.
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I'm not starting any unsubstantiated rumours, and I am a bit offended that I'm being implicated of doing that. I'm simply asking a (stupid?) question that remains completely unanswered. My question was asked more for my own education on glow engines. A little leeway in wording consideration would be nice. People (and me) should be given the benefit of the doubt. Conversations in text leave much to the interpretation, and that should be kept in mind. I did say that I can't imagine it to be a design flaw. That in itself (should) imply that it's a question as to why it was made that way; there must be a reason.
Chris
To answer your question Yes it would be far better to have cooling fins, the find do a vital job, our engines generate heat to make power, the head fin dissipate heat, the more you can dissipate the better and the more power you can make in a more stable situation. I have seen this on many engines, the HP 40 for example had a version with a slick head, that engine was also much better with the addition of the finned head. Not to mention the many dozens of heads that I have seen people grind the fins off., They are all better with the cooling fins.
The normal setup with no fins are much better running in a 2 cycle run, and not an engine that you want to cycle reliably .
Remove the fins from a FOX 35s and it is less stable
Remove the fins from a HP 40 and it is less stable
Remove the fins from a ST 40 , 46 , 51, 60 and it is less stable
Remove the fins from an Aero Tiger and it is less stable
Remove the fins from a LA or FP engine and it is less stable\etc... and they all are less capable of making consistent power, run hotter, and are just generally lesser engines
You see this mainly on speed engines designed to run in a screaming 2 cycle
Randy
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What's to keep someone from machining fins to that head?
Charles
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Thanks for the answer, Randy.
Vr,
Chris
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What's to keep someone from machining fins to that head?
Charles
Nothing, that is exactly what I did to the HP40 finless heads
Randy
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Well, so far no issues with the 61 CXL smooth red head version. Let's hope it stays that way. 8)
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Nothing, that is exactly what I did to the HP40 finless heads
Randy
So, I wasn't going to ask on this thread, but since the topic is up, Randy, might there be a reason an engine designer WANTS to keep the head temp up, for any reason?
Sorry for all the questions, but info is something I really love to get, and certain topics are fascinating to me.
Thanks.
Vr,
Chris
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So, I wasn't going to ask on this thread, but since the topic is up, Randy, might there be a reason an engine designer WANTS to keep the head temp up, for any reason?
Sorry for all the questions, but info is something I really love to get, and certain topics are fascinating to me.
Thanks.
Vr,
Chris
Yes there is, for one...say a racing engine that your going to run a COLD Plug in, also one you use in a 2 cycle, peaked without any cycling, there are several reasons they could do this, my reply above was based on "stunt use"
and not applicable here, but many boat engines are slick heads, with water cooling
But for most all applications the slick head is not a good idea
Randy
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Hi.
It's allways good to make cooling fins big enough.
Then, for those cool morning flights or rain, you can allways adjust it worse with some O-rings. Works for me.
Lauri
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Randy,
Is this the HP 40 you are referring to?
No fins!
Charles
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Randy,
Is this the HP 40 you are referring to?
No fins!
Charles
Yes except for the ones I did, were Black, they did make Silver (Silver Stars) and black ( Gold Cups ) versions of the 40
Randy
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I have a couple of old ball race version of the model 5524 Enya 35. One is the old black square plastic venturi variety and the second one has the later round venturi. Both of them still have excellent compression and run like the proverbial sowing machine.
Interestingly enough, they will do the expected 4-2-4 as well as a wet two stroke a la LA46. I wasn't expecting them to be so good with the higher rev lower pitch prop approach. Has anyone else run the old baffle piston engines in this manner? If so did you get such good results?
I am a sucker for Enyas and I hope that I have a couple on order with Alberto Parra.
Regards,
Andrew.
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Anyone receive a delivery of their new Enya 35 Classic 5224 Red Head in the mail yet?
Charles
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Drilled for a muffler, that's good. Not sure it needs the ball bearing nose, though. Adds an ounce or so of weight.
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Drilled for a muffler, that's good. Not sure it needs the ball bearing nose, though. Adds an ounce or so of weight.
Bill,
At lease the case doesn't come apart at both ends, this helps keep the weight down.
Mine weighs 8.3 oz.
A Scott Riese tongue muffler should go .6 to .7 oz.
My Scott Riese toung muffler for my OS LA .46 weighs .6 oz.
Having fins machined in the head will remove a bit more weight. If one elects to do that.
Charles
Edited for sp.
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Bill,
A Scott Riese thong muffler should go .6 to .7 oz.
Charles
Charles
I sell many tongue mufflers for a lot of engines...I have not seen a "thong muffler" exactly how do you wear them? do they silence the noise effectively ??? ;D :D ??? H^^ H^^
Randy
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Charles
I sell many tongue mufflers for a lot of engines...I have not seen a "thong muffler" exactly how do you wear them? do they silence the noise effectively ??? ;D :D ??? H^^ H^^
Randy
Wow! That's an interesting misspell. I don't know what I was thinking, well maybe I do. :P
Maybe I'm just tired from all this model designing and building. Nah. ;D
Are your mufflers polished?
Charles
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This Classic is actually a mix of two different series of the 35. The crankcase is based on the 5224, probably the IIIB, but the front end comes from the 5225 (35-V BB). Prior to the 35-V BB, all the ball raced Specials had the square venturi even after the plain bearing models switched to a round venturi.
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Charles
I sell many tongue mufflers for a lot of engines...I have not seen a "thong muffler" exactly how do you wear them? do they silence the noise effectively ??? ;D :D ??? H^^ H^^
Randy
Oh my goodness! This is not a good mental picture. :-[
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A square venturi version will be available soon.....
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So, what is this engine equal to?
Is it like a plane bearing ST-35C? Needle Bearing Fox 36x?
Curt
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I'll put this up, since it might give a bit of an idea what to expect of the new 35 Classic. I've just started flying a new Tucker Special, fitted with the re-released 35-III that Enya put out a few years ago. While it's not identical to the new Classic, it's the same basic engine bar the ballraces, Delrin venturi, and the fancy anodised head. AFAIK it's the same piston/cylinder, timing etc, so I'd expect the new one to run much the same as my 35-III - maybe a bit better even.
My engine's fitted with the small square venturi, low-comp head, and an old stock strap-on muffler from the 1960s. It had maybe an hour maximum of running-in. I didn't really know what to expect, but was very pleasantly surprised. Plenty of power, a nice run, and very consistent. Fuel was 5/11/11. I tried a wood 11x4 at first, which was pretty good, but the APC 10.5 x 4.5, launched at 10000, was even better. As you can hear in the video, there's just a gentle break into a clean 2-stroke in manoeuvres.
Anyway, here's the video if you're interested. It starts out a bit shaky while my buddy moves to a better position, but gets better after that. Some of the flying's a bit ordinary, too, so ignore that. ;) The engine and model are really enjoyable, and I'll be using them a lot more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPjLIeztMjw
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Steve,
Thanks for that info and video. Thanks to you I feel better now because I purchased one of the new Classic engines from that offering on ebay. Don't know where the others went? ???
I have to decide what I'll put this Enya in. Something for Old Time Stunt probably.
Weight? What does your model weigh?
Nice flying!! H^^
Charles
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Weight? What does your model weigh?
Hi Charles, it's about 45 oz, which seems well within the engine's comfort zone.
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Having seen the head from above all I can conclude is that there is a substantial amount of metal to absorb heat and seven good sized holes that act as surface area increasing 'fins.'
That and the red anodizing would tend to transfer heat better than a plain surface.
Most 'slick' head engines do not have anywhere near that amount of metal in them and tend to finish at the bolt heads or below.
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Hi Charles, it's about 45 oz, which seems well within the engine's comfort zone.
Steve,
That's a great weight for that model. H^^
I'm doing my best to build lighter models.
Charles
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That's a great weight for that model. H^^
Nah, I'm pretty sure the pros out there would have them under 40 oz. My story, and I'm sticking to it, is that after reading about the Ted & Brett Ballast Experiment, there didn't seem any point making it any lighter. ;)
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Having seen the head from above all I can conclude is that there is a substantial amount of metal to absorb heat and seven good sized holes that act as surface area increasing 'fins.'
That and the red anodizing would tend to transfer heat better than a plain surface.
Most 'slick' head engines do not have anywhere near that amount of metal in them and tend to finish at the bolt heads or below.
..yes, to absorb heat, but how about transferring it into airstream? I'd just chuck it in lathe and cut some cooling fins, a little like that:
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..yes, to absorb heat, but how about transferring it into airstream?
Already ticked that one off Laurie 8)
Quote "and seven good sized holes that act as surface area increasing fins."
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I say homeopathy. :)
But, these are stunt engines and not high performance engines. More often I have found myself fighting against overcooling, not overheating. So propably it is just fine as it is but certainly I would be interested in trying what better cooling would do.
Besides, it is allways easier to increase temperature if need comes. And you save some grams, too!
L
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I like your sense of humour Laurie but all joking aside I reckon that the budget was spent on anodising rather than a milling operation simply as a point of difference in marketing.
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The milling could have been done as a standard part of making the head, BEFORE the anodizing, would require very little extra
Randy
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Would look great with fins!
Doesn't look all that bad in the ARGO II, but the model is cut for the OS LA 46.
Now would be the time to make the change.
Charles
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For anyone interested, the Enya Classic .35 Red Head is back on ebay. 149.95
10 available for those that may want one.
Different case though, has the square venturi case.
Wonder why more of the other .35 Classic wasn't produced, like the first offering?
Charles
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The 35 Classic Type A has a 35 III crankcase with a 29 V front housing, bearings and crank. It has the white plastic venturi insert.
The 35 Classic Type B has a 35 III crankcase, front housing, bearings and crank. It has a neat looking aluminum venturi insert.
The round venturi Model 5224 B engines were never produced as ball bearing engines. When the Model 5225 engines came along they were produced in both the ball bearing and bronze bushing plain bearing configuration.
Pat
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Just an update on this thread, Bob (shtterman on ebay) has 2 of the Type B engines for sale but what I found interesting is that the square aluminum venturiis are available as spare parts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENYA-29-35-MODEL-5224-35-CLASSIC-C-L-VENTURI-SQUARE-ALUM-/291983851350
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Just an update on this thread, Bob (shtterman on ebay) has 2 of the Type B engines for sale but what I found interesting is that the square aluminum venturiis are available as spare parts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENYA-29-35-MODEL-5224-35-CLASSIC-C-L-VENTURI-SQUARE-ALUM-/291983851350
Bill,
That engine has been listed and relisted a few times. Seems there's little interest in it?
Charles
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Bill,
That engine has been listed and relisted a few times. Seems there's little interest in it?
Charles
Or it could be a good selling regular item, since he has "more than 10 available" :)
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Or it could be a good selling regular item, since he has "more than 10 available" :)
Could be, but I don't remember seeing 10 available of this particular engine?
I see 3 available currently, so you may be correct about sales.
The engine didn't sell in December, however many he has?
I purchased the one with the round case venture. I hope it's a good engine?
Charles
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The link you quoted was not to the engine, but rather to a venturi insert, that is what I followed and commented on :)
I suspect all of his engines sit for a while, just the nature of selling to a smaller market.
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..yes, to absorb heat, but how about transferring it into airstream? I'd just chuck it in lathe and cut some cooling fins, a little like that:
Re-reading a little bit of engineering, anodizing ups the emissivity of shiny, raw aluminum from.06 or so up to .8 or so. Just letting the shiny finish naturally oxidize ups the emissivity(radiation emission) up to .6 or so. So a heavy anodized coating can make a substantial increase in heat dissipation.
I think I'll anodize a head on an F2D engine and see what happens.
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I'd love to try one of the new engines but they're a little pricey for me. I'm buying a couple of the new venturiis for my older engines. They originally came with 3 different size venturiis, 7, 7.5 and 8mm. 2 of mine, bought used, have the 8mm while the new venturiis are 7.5mm according to Bob.