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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: KEITH McCRARY on August 31, 2018, 05:21:55 PM

Title: New Engine stuck
Post by: KEITH McCRARY on August 31, 2018, 05:21:55 PM
Randy,

  I have two new Magnum .36 xls engines. They have been on the shelf in their boxes wrapped in original plastic bag for over ten years. Yesterday I pulled them out and they will not turn over. I do not want to scar the piston or sleeve by forcing it. How should I proceed?

Keith
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: RandySmith on August 31, 2018, 07:52:01 PM
Randy,

  I have two new Magnum .36 xls engines. They have been on the shelf in their boxes wrapped in original plastic bag for over ten years. Yesterday I pulled them out and they will not turn over. I do not want to scar the piston or sleeve by forcing it. How should I proceed?

Keith

Hi Keith 
You can remove the back plate  and glow plug, put in  some  PB Blaster  oil, then  heat the  engine up after  about an hour  or  2  soaking, they should turn over free,  look  for corrosion first before  you oil it up, also you may see  hard dry oil  on the  rear bearing or around the crank counterweight, which may cover the bearing, try to spray  oil  behind the  crank  so the rear bearing gets  oil. If anything  goes wrong  post again,  you can clean any hard dry oil out  with  WD 40 or  carb cleaning  spray, the reinstall backplate  and  oil with after run oil

Randy
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Brett Buck on August 31, 2018, 08:05:19 PM
Randy's advice should get it loosened up, but it's probably not from rust or coagulated oil. I checked otherwise unopened Magnum 36s, and both where shipped with the piston at TDC. Heat alone should work. Once I got mine off of TDC and put a glow plug in it, everything was fine and the oil looked fine.

     Brett
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Steve Helmick on August 31, 2018, 08:23:44 PM
I may have a week's employment, just un-sticking my own stock of Magnum XLS .36's, a .46, and I think 3 .52's and at least a couple of XL .53's, .25's and .28's. They oil the dickens out of them at the factory...I wouldn't worry about rust.   LL~ Steve
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: RandySmith on September 01, 2018, 01:02:56 AM
I have setup over 100s  of these,  and  I have seen them as Brett  described, set on TDC, I have also seen them  with hard dried oil, and  I have had them here on TDC with nearly zero oil in them, So I would still suggest  looking into the backplate area, it easy to do, and will not hurt anything, The rear gasket is  plastic  and  clear, and normally  will not  tear, at least I have not torn one  yet

Randy
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Brett Buck on September 01, 2018, 11:26:20 AM
I have setup over 100s  of these,  and  I have seen them as Brett  described, set on TDC, I have also seen them  with hard dried oil, and  I have had them here on TDC with nearly zero oil in them,

   I don't know what they were thinking on that one, even if it starts with oil in it, leave it at TDC for more than a fraction of a second, and the oil all gets displaced from the piston/liner interface, and it's not easily coming back apart. Two of mine (which I hadn't even unwrapped all the way until last night) were nearly exactly at the top. That had to have been on purpose, and without heat, it was going to take pounding on the prop to get it loose.
     
     Brett
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: KEITH McCRARY on September 01, 2018, 04:19:36 PM
Thanks everyone. When I put them in the oven am I just warming them up at 150 degrees for an hour or two? Or do I full blast them at 550 for an hour or two?
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Target on September 01, 2018, 04:40:00 PM
I don't think I would bake them in the oven. Just open the back and remove glow plug as suggested, add oil, then use a covering heat gin or hair drier on the head. Get it really warm to the touch and then try wiggling the prop.
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: RandySmith on September 01, 2018, 05:00:56 PM
Thanks everyone. When I put them in the oven am I just warming them up at 150 degrees for an hour or two? Or do I full blast them at 550 for an hour or two?

DO NOT  put them in the  oven, heat the top of the case  and  head  with a  monocoat  heat gun  or  hot  hair dryer, you can do too much damage in the oven, and that is not needed, juts  use the  gun for 10 or 15 seconds
You want to get the  outside of the head and  case  hot  without  getting  the piston hot, so  it does not take but  10 or so seconds

Randy
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Steve Helmick on September 01, 2018, 05:23:43 PM
Piston was probably at TDC because the assembly crew was checking to be sure the piston didn't hit the head. It can happen, even at Fox, Veco and K&B.  ;)  Steve
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: KEITH McCRARY on September 01, 2018, 07:47:36 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Target on September 01, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
We hope to hear back of your success!!!
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Brett Buck on September 01, 2018, 09:22:35 PM
Thanks everyone. When I put them in the oven am I just warming them up at 150 degrees for an hour or two? Or do I full blast them at 550 for an hour or two?

   150 is safe enough, your car gets that hot on a summer day. 550 will certainly destroy something! But you probably just need a heat gun for less than a minute, as Randy says.

    Brett
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Mike Greb on September 03, 2018, 01:12:23 PM
I think people are overthinking the engine stuck thing.   Just stick a prop on it and pull it off tdc.  Maybe pull off the backplate so you can oil the rear bearing . The only new motors that have passed through my hands that  really need complete disassembly are fox motors that were run at the factory with castor oil and have been sitting around for a few years.
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: RandySmith on September 03, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
If you remove the backplate, you would be able to see if the piston is  at TDC, or  it maybe off slightly on way or the  other, you would turn the prop that way if, it is on one side or the other at TDC

You can damage, the bearing seal, gaskets, or maybe other things at  550 degrees in an oven, is why I posted that, plus some other things that you do not want can happen, and "IF" you have dried oil, that can make it worse

When the glow plug out and the back plate off, it is very easy to see the inside, oil the engine, and clean anything out that you do not want in it, also the already mentioned rod check to see exactly where the piston is, and removing these parts is very easy and simple

The reason you want to heat a cold engine up quickly with a heat gun, is so the outside case/sleeve , gets hot and expands away from the  piston,  If you heat it slowly in an oven, it will heat the piston and the piston will grow to match the  sleeve, ie.. not getting it loose, also  when you pull  it out of the oven, then sleeve/case starts cooling faster than the piston, and will actually get  tighter on the piston.

Randy
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Target on September 03, 2018, 02:34:56 PM
And it seems plenty easy and logical to oil it up, and hit the head/cylinder with a heat gun or hair dryer....
Why anyone would not want to do that is beyond me.
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: Brett Buck on September 03, 2018, 02:38:30 PM
I think people are overthinking the engine stuck thing.   Just stick a prop on it and pull it off tdc.  Maybe pull off the backplate so you can oil the rear bearing . The only new motors that have passed through my hands that  really need complete disassembly are fox motors that were run at the factory with castor oil and have been sitting around for a few years.

   With ABC/AAC  engines, you sometimes have to absolutely hammer on the prop to force it loose, or put far more torque on it than you would want. It's not coagulated oil, it's cold-welding or something very like it. Heat it up, the cylinder expands, and you can move it. In the case of both of my engines, it felt completely locked, I heated it up a little, and it moved easily and was very free.

     Brett

     
Title: Re: New Engine stuck
Post by: katana on September 04, 2018, 06:52:40 AM
Not everyone has one - but engine fiddlers should - open up all the cavities (as much as possible and drop into an ultrasonic bath for 10 or 15 minutes - rinse out and repeat. Will free off most things and apply a good clean to others. I use mine extensively for Bike carbs - always describe the purchase to the 'little lady' as a Jewelry Cleaner (which it does as well !)