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Author Topic: cold weather starting  (Read 3305 times)

Offline phil myers

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cold weather starting
« on: November 09, 2012, 04:53:31 AM »
I've noticed in my three years of model flying that as the temperatures drop at this time of year say, from 25 c in the middle of summer to 10c now I have to richen the needle (2-3 clicks) to get similar runs.. obviously air temp is the issue but can someone tell me what is really happening, just curious.. Thanks
Phil
Norfolk . England

Offline mike donovan

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 12:20:44 PM »
Phil                                                                                                                                                               when the air is cold it usually contains more oxygen. Your engine is taking in more oxygen and to keep the       mixture the same you have to add more fuel thus explaining the richer needle setting. This will usually result in slightly more power. Just the opposite hapens when the air is hot. Hope this helps.

Offline phil myers

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 03:51:52 PM »
Thanks Mike!  H^^

Online Brett Buck

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 07:12:00 PM »
Phil                                                                                                                                                               when the air is cold it usually contains more oxygen. Your engine is taking in more oxygen and to keep the       mixture the same you have to add more fuel thus explaining the richer needle setting. This will usually result in slightly more power. Just the opposite hapens when the air is hot. Hope this helps.

   That's part of it, the other half of the story is that the viscosity of the fuel goes up when the temperature goes down, so you have to open the needle just to get the same fuel flow rate for a given amount of suction.

    Brett

Offline phil myers

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 11:44:49 AM »
Thanks Brett  H^^
Phil

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 09:55:34 PM »
Don't forget that good warm and freshly charged batteries are your friend. Also Naptha or Ronson-like lighter fluid.  y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 09:47:55 AM »
           The lighter fluid does indeed work well. Just use a glove if your not already doing so as sometimes it does want to kick back. Last year I got my finger whacked pretty good doing the lighter fluid trick.  The Rev-up prop broke over my finger. I have to tell you, I think everyone nearby learned some new words that afternoon. Ken

Online Brett Buck

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 12:29:54 PM »
           The lighter fluid does indeed work well. Just use a glove if your not already doing so as sometimes it does want to kick back. Last year I got my finger whacked pretty good doing the lighter fluid trick.  The Rev-up prop broke over my finger. I have to tell you, I think everyone nearby learned some new words that afternoon. Ken

  And it hurts 3x as much when your finger is already cold.  I can assure you that when the same thing happens with a PA61 and an Eather prop, it doesn't break the prop. For whatever reason, my last PA61 was absolutely evil in cold conditions. It had no problem starting, it even started with the battery off at less than 50 degrees. But the kickbacks were brutal. Other nominally identical engines were not nearly as bad.


    Brett

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 05:36:23 PM »
I have to give my Briggs & Stratton (pressure washer) a shot of ether from a spray can to get it going.  I wonder if that would work in a glo engine?

Floyd
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Offline Lauri Malila

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 04:18:59 AM »


 Hi

 I have learned to be very carefull with bigger engines, I don't use anything else than the fuel I use to prime the engine. Especially with wooden props/dural prop fastening screw.
 In colder weather it's all about a good glow power and correct amount of prime.
 On the other hand, I've never used a starter, chicken stick or even a glove.
 But, my engine runs clockwise.

 L 

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 04:44:26 PM »
Note to Ty.  I will not try it!  I really haven't had any issues starting glo engines.

My Allis-Chalmers diesel tractor has glo plugs for easy starts.

Floyd
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Offline YakNine

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 05:36:16 PM »
Its funny how some engines start fine when its cold and others of the same make and model can be cantankerous to say the least, I have an old Fox .35 1958 or so with the spade needle valve and its a great starter and runner even when its cold out. I have a Veco 19 bushed engine that turns into an evil ax murderer below 55 degrees or so but my 19 bb's are pussy cats . My 68 fox with hemI kit is an easy starter but my mid 70's .35 stunt won't be back out till it gets warmer. I gotta pick up some zippo fuel and try that. T.J.
AMA 85135                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GSCB

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2012, 08:39:37 PM »
I have to give my Briggs & Stratton (pressure washer) a shot of ether from a spray can to get it going.  I wonder if that would work in a glo engine?

Floyd
Yep, they actually sell this in a pressure can here in Oz, its called 'Start You Barst*rd!.'

And glows plug engines being semi compression ignition engines should be able to use it, since all you need is compression (or more precisely the heat from compression) to trigger it.
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 08:53:34 PM »
And I have just stumbled upon this gem!

"But there were other problems, to wit, the
temperature. Our small, mostly aluminum
motors needed heat to start, so by definition,
they were never designed for winter
running. One common means of generating
heat to start them was to wrap a tiny strip of
rag around the cylinder, pour engine fuel on
it, and set it afire. Usually this worked ok
provided you paid close attention to what
was going on. You see, the alcohol these
little motors operated on had no visible
color when burning. The only warning you

had that things were amiss was this quickly growing brown spot on the model that wasn’t there
when you built it. This meant your model was on fire!"

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CLpshjVoMOUJ:https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/DahlkeDouglasA.pdf+super+saucer+control+line+model&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgS9Nhjvk6npgPjucYH2M-cDC8MKimqK005gFirmwkbJOedJmjww1kL9xuQhjBAgJ7IB-rk6B3qtv9oFW-k2gIUxseCb4o-BFJ2fh512RKhYBvi7SuxATBxGNPXICHrpNxh7vsh&sig=AHIEtbTBiki5M-UJKTcqrJWH-LPNwuW0Kg
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline YakNine

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 05:48:31 PM »
Well I hit the hardware store on the way home and picked up a tin of Red Devil lighter fluid . I mounted the old veco .19 ln the stand gave it a prime and lo and behold it started on the second flip thanks for the tip guys it worked great. My propping finger and backup propping finger thank you :) T.J.
AMA 85135                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GSCB

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 03:35:27 PM »
I was trying to start a car that had stood for 9 months last very cold and icy winter. Battery was kept trickled charged, the engine was just on the verge of firing, so I used a can of ether based spray for starting recalcitrant engines. It killed the engine stone dead and it didn't return to its previous state until all the ether had gone through the engine! Never did work that one out!

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 03:55:06 PM »
I was trying to start a car that had stood for 9 months last very cold and icy winter. Battery was kept trickled charged, the engine was just on the verge of firing, so I used a can of ether based spray for starting recalcitrant engines. It killed the engine stone dead and it didn't return to its previous state until all the ether had gone through the engine! Never did work that one out!

Andrew.

Did you check the comp?
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: cold weather starting
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 10:55:19 PM »
Andrew...A little dab will do ya! Don't empty the can into the engine. Also don't get the air filter wet with it, because if it's paper, any dust on it will turn to mud. If the filter is an oiled foam-type, it will wash the oil off the filter and into the engine, also not good.
Best to remove the air filter, regardless of what sort.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

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