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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: FLOYD CARTER on January 12, 2012, 01:27:19 PM

Title: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on January 12, 2012, 01:27:19 PM
My Stalker 51 uses two "O" rings to couple the muffler to the engine.  They last about 3 flights, then get loose and hard.  I've tried O rings from the hardware, but they are the same.

So, since I know almost nothing about O rings, what material should I look for?  What O-ring application is intended for high temps?

Floyd
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2012, 02:11:33 PM
My Stalker 51 uses two "O" rings to couple the muffler to the engine.  They last about 3 flights, then get loose and hard.  I've tried O rings from the hardware, but they are the same.

So, since I know almost nothing about O rings, what material should I look for?  What O-ring application is intended for high temps?

Floyd

Hi Floyd

You can't use the O-Rings that you buy at the hardware store for plumbing type use, They need to be special hi temp O-Rings such as VITON , if you cannot get VITON O-Rings at least try to get the RED Silicone ones, they will last many times longer than black rubber ones

Regards
Randy
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Tim Wescott on January 12, 2012, 02:51:16 PM
The source of All Things Machining (and expensive):
http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=fs0l5d

They have a pretty good discussion of each material's properties.  Unfortunately I don't know how hot a nitro-burning engine exhaust gets, other than it'll make a shiny spot when it burns you -- that's in excess of 100C, but I don't know by how much.
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Rob Killick on January 12, 2012, 02:56:36 PM
Hi ,

I work as a hydraulic tech , for a living and I use a lot of different o ring products .

The Markez Z1213  has an operating temperature , up to 320 degrees C , or about 610 dgrees F.

Hope this might help ?

Rob K.
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: RandySmith on January 12, 2012, 04:26:44 PM
or you could just buy Viton, Hi Temp O-Rings ,and use them , That is the same type that I have supplied with my RE mufflers for many years now.
The ones I use are black and harder than the typical O-Rings, the orange-red  silicone O-Rings also have worked pretty well in many engines and take heat pretty well.

Remember nothing is going to last forever, and the closer to the engine, the shorter their lifespan will be

Randy
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on January 13, 2012, 11:56:45 AM
OK, so VITON it is.  Now all I have to do is find a source!

Thanks for your inputs.

Floyd
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Lauri Malila on January 13, 2012, 01:29:33 PM

 Hi.

 I just found very good Viton O-rings for Retro Discovery engines from:

 www.smallparts.com

 I think they are better than the originals. They have several sizes available, my guess is that for Stalker you'd better look for the metric sizes.
 Also, the O-rings seem to last a little longer if you wrap 2-3 layers of plumbers teflon tape (the very thin one) over the header before slipping it in place. Good teflon grease does no harm too.

 Lauri
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: RandySmith on January 13, 2012, 03:58:01 PM
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm

Is where I buy mine

Randy
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Stan Bidowski on January 13, 2012, 03:59:04 PM
Hi ,

I work as a hydraulic tech , for a living and I use a lot of different o ring products .

The Markez Z1213  has an operating temperature , up to 320 degrees C , or about 610 dgrees F.

Hope this might help ?

Rob K.

Are the Markez O-rings better than the Viton?
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Brett Buck on January 13, 2012, 04:07:00 PM
You can't use the O-Rings that you buy at the hardware store for plumbing type use, They need to be special hi temp O-Rings such as VITON , if you cannot get VITON O-Rings at least try to get the RED Silicone ones, they will last many times longer than black rubber ones

     Question  for Stalker/Eastern European rear-exhaust engine experts, slightly off-topic - what is positively retaining the muffler on these "slip-on" rear exhaust mufflers? The only thing that appeared to work consistently is something built into the airplane to keep of from being pushed off the back. I and others have had the same issue with even the Rustler/Merco engines with screw-on mufflers - they shake loose and tend to damage/destroy the threads on the header, and there's no too way to really crank down on the jam nut in some cases.

     Brett
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Tim Wescott on January 13, 2012, 04:47:21 PM
     Question  for stalker/Eastern European rear-exhaust engine experts, slightly off-topic - what is positively retaining the muffler on these "slip-on" rear exhaust mufflers. The only thing that appeared to work consistently is something built into the airplane to keep of from being pushed off the back. I and others have had the same issue with even the Rustler/Merco engines with screw-on mufflers - they shake loose and tend to damage/destroy the threads on the header, and there's no too way to really crank down on the jam nut in some cases.

Without seeing the engine in question, it might work to modify the muffler with some pegs or hooks, and wrap a honkin' strong spring around the cylinder to hold the muffler on.  To be positive it'd almost have to be strong enough to suck the muffler in when it's misplaced (otherwise it will find a way to walk out).

I dunno if it'd work with these particular engines, how hard the "pegs or hooks" would be to add on (or clamp on, or whatever), or if it'd be any better than nailing the muffler or pipe to the airframe -- a picture just popped into my head, I thought I should share.
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Balsa Butcher on January 14, 2012, 12:15:15 AM
It is easier just to screw a small 90 degree "L" bracket to the back of the Stalker plug in exhaust can. Attach the other angle of the bracket to a plywood crosspiece or bulkhead in the engine compartment. This will prevent the muffler from backing out. The screw on mufflers won't need it if their jam nut is routinely checked and tightened.  8)
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: Alan Resinger on January 14, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Most of the Stalker mufflers that are plug in type have a round hollow tube cast onto the back of the muffler. The idea is to have a dowel mounted in the rear part of the engine/tank compartment that the tube slips over to retain it in position.  Of course this does not keep the muffler from rotating.  I cut the round stud along it horizontal axis and then drill a hole vertically throught the remaining flat bottomed stud.  This then rests on a plywood plate between the fuse sides with a blind nut on the bottom to secure the muffler. This way the muffer is secured from fore and aft movement and from rotation.  O-rings last a lot longer this way.  I use Vitron rings I got from McMaster-Carr.  The #014 is the proper size.  100 will cost about $8.50.
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on January 14, 2012, 02:03:08 PM
Lots of good ideas here.  Thanks!

The only way to secure the muffler fore and aft is by using a bolt mounted to a ply firewall behind the muffler. The last adjustment is to run the bolt up against the back of the muffler.  I use a couple of jam nuts to keep the bolt in place.  It can't fall out, but when the O-rings get loose, the whole thing rattles around!

My other stunt engines have a bolt-on rear muffler, which is superior!

Floyd
Title: Re: Muffler "O" rings
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on January 15, 2012, 02:23:40 PM
SUNDAY,1/15  I ordered the recommended O-rings from McMaster-Carr.

What am I going to do with 100 of them?

Thanks to all for the great advice.

Floyd