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Author Topic: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?  (Read 1783 times)

Offline Scott Richlen

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TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« on: April 14, 2007, 10:29:17 AM »
Someone gave me an RC trainer: he had one flight on it that ended in dismay.  I stripped it down and low-and-behold here was a nice, new (one very short flight) undamaged Thunder Tiger 36.  And me with a dremel tool and ambitions of being an engine modifier (actually, I have used the info on Dean Pappas' lectures about retiming on a Bob Hunt video combined with advice from Ron Burn to modify some FP-40s quite successfully).

So, what do I do to this thing to get it into a somewhat reasonable mode for doing the old 4/2 cycle bit (or slow2/fast2 bit)?

Scott

Offline Bill Little

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 10:32:45 AM »
Hi Scott,

Short of sending it to Randy and letting him convert it to an Aero Tiger (he can do that), I would just follow Dean's tape.

Bill <><
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Offline Greg Howie

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 01:57:54 PM »
Yeah so far no one is talking. At least you asked the correct question. I sort of danced around the question and asked if it was possible. You just came out there and asked. Some people will tell you what they have tried. Tom Muggelton was great he had specs of allot of engines and would just tell you . I made it a hemi head, raised the ports .020 ,lowered the sleeve .008. Bam You can fool around with the size of the ports most of the time smaller to avoid the wind up.  As far as the TT 36 so far ..............no help
I have machine shop background. I have cut on castings worth 10,000.00 . All I need is the dimensions. I am not looking for a how to lecture.  The entry fee here is to buy one done. For 98% of the people that is as far as they want to get involved. I am not worried about hacking up a engine from e bay that cost 37 dollars. On the other hand I am too cheep to spend 200 to find out how to.

Oh ....I see ,you mean the ones on a string ?

Greg Howie

Offline phil c

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 02:36:03 PM »
Drop the sleeve as much as you can, and modify the piston top to get the near following timings:
Exhaust 135-140 deg. duration
Main bypasses  115- 120deg.
boost port       105-110 or so. or block the boost bypass entirely.  It doesn't do much at 10,000 rpm.

Adjust the head to get a squish band clearance of .015 or so.
Adjust the size of the combustion chamber(or make it into a double bubble style) to reduce the compression after running the engine.

Most stunt engines also restrict the intake closing to the range of 35-40 deg. ATDC.  Kind of hard to weld filler onto the shaft though.

The TT36 has a much bigger exhaust port than the Magnum 36, more boost port timing, and more intake duration, all of which make it want to run at faster rpms.
phil Cartier

Offline Bill Little

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 02:56:19 PM »
Yeah so far no one is talking. At least you asked the correct question. I sort of danced around the question and asked if it was possible. You just came out there and asked. Some people will tell you what they have tried. Tom Muggelton was great he had specs of allot of engines and would just tell you . I made it a hemi head, raised the ports .020 ,lowered the sleeve .008. Bam You can fool around with the size of the ports most of the time smaller to avoid the wind up.  As far as the TT 36 so far ..............no help
I have machine shop background. I have cut on castings worth 10,000.00 . All I need is the dimensions. I am not looking for a how to lecture.  The entry fee here is to buy one done. For 98% of the people that is as far as they want to get involved. I am not worried about hacking up a engine from e bay that cost 37 dollars. On the other hand I am too cheep to spend 200 to find out how to.

Aw, Greg..... that ain't fair!  Scott has the tape from Dean (actually Robin's View Productions, on of the SFVM tapes) and Dean Pappas goes into detail on that tape what specs make a good running stunt engine. y1

I only *know* of two people who rework a TT 36 for stunt (there *might* be more, I dunno), Byron Barker and Randy Smith.  I have one of Byron's reworked TT36, and it's a good 4-2 engine.

Randy's TT36 I do not have, but I do have a few Aero Tiger 36s.  These are as far from a stock TT 36 as a ST 60 is from a Enya 60.  Randy has new sleeve/piston sets made to different specs to start with, then he does the rest of his mods.  As he said, I just don't *think* you can make an Aero Tiger 36 from a stock TT 36. 

The standard numbers for stunt runs are available pretty easily, though, and I would go with what Phil has said here.  But in the end, it will not be an Aero Tiger 36 which is what most people are gunning for when they talk about the TT36.

Didn't mean to cut anyone off, but the tape will give you all the timing info that you can use.  I wish someone could just give the numbers to cut the sleeve at, etc., but with variances in manufactoring, timing each individual engine is necessary.  Then, again, some guys just raise the intake ports as close to .020 as they can, add head shims, and go use the engine.

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Steve Holt

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 05:12:34 PM »
I have a couple of Byron Barker's reworked TT36's and one stock except for the venturi and needle valve.  While the modified engines run very well for stunt, the stock engine does surprisingly well if the right prop is used.  A flat pitch prop that lets the engine rev without loading it down works fine and the engine is consistant at a slightly rich 2 cycle.  I have used a 10.5X4.5 APC and a 10X4 APC with this engine on a Primary Force ARF with good results.  I even flew it on an old Ringmaster for break-in with the 10X4 prop and it ran well and the airplane was a blast to fly.  With muffler pressure on a clunk tank the run is steady through all maneuvers sort of like the fabled OSFP20.  As a fringe benefit, it runs over 6 minutes on 3 oz of fuel.  On a larger airplane, an 11X4 might be a better prop.  If you over prop it with too much pitch, it will run away and when it runs away, hang on.  This engine makes a lot of power at high rpm.
Steve

Offline wmiii

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 06:20:38 PM »

  While the modified engines run very well for stunt, the stock engine does surprisingly well if the right prop is used. 

  They still ARE not an AeroTiger .36. I've heard tell of these .36's still going after almost 2000 flights, then needing just a new P&L set, plus bearings. Calculate the cost per flight, excellant value.

 Walter
walter menges

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 06:18:08 PM »
Thank you all for your replies, they are greatly appreciated.  I'm not trying to make an AeroTiger 36 out of this TT-36, I simply view this as an opportunity.  I really believe that there is always more to learn if you don't just stand on the side-lines and since a good running engine is critically important to a good stunt pattern, I need to learn as much as I can.  I already have one Randy modified engine, three Tom Dixon modified engines (a 35 and two 40s), two Frank Bowman modified 60s, and a PA-61.  So, I've got some good stuff, and when I need another great running engine I'll be sending another check down to Randy.  But the goal in this case is to learn more.  If I screw this TT-36 up playing with the timing - well, it was free anyway.  Sometimes we concentrate on the flying skills so much that we forget that there is a whole world of things to be learned in the non-flying aspects of playing with our control line planes and engines.

Scott

Offline Marvin Denny

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Re: TT-36 How do I modify it for stunt?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 07:21:42 PM »
  Scott, you are to be admired for wanting to know (and be able to do) more in the realm of model aviation.  I am an engine "hacker".  I do  my own engine rework but do not do it for others.  I will say this.  When you start,  even after you have gotten all the measurements and degrees needed for the rework, and have the necessary measuring equipment and tools,  Be prepared to absolutely RUIN two or three  (or perhaps more) engines before you "get the touch" necessary to do the jobs right.  Slips and mistakes WILL occur..

  Have at it and have a good time.

  Bigiron
marvin Denny  AMA  499


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