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Author Topic: Making fuel for diesel engines  (Read 5408 times)

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Making fuel for diesel engines
« on: October 19, 2016, 02:18:46 PM »
I have thought about diesel engines for a long, long time, because it is hard for me to get regular fuel of any sort.  I live way out in the boonies, so its darned hard to get to a hobby shop.  The thing that has stopped me is how to make the fuel.  Whats the formula and how is it stored? H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 02:25:35 PM »
Google for it?  Davis Diesel Development sells it.  If you can find "Dr. Diesel" (Eric Clutton) I think he sells it.  Carlson Engine Imports also came up on my search.

Ether is one of the most important constituents, and it is, apparently, a central part of cooking methamphetamine, so it can be hard to get.  Some brands of engine starting fluid* use ether, but I don't know how cost-effective it is to use.

* Apparently there is, or was, an Australian brand called "Start Ye Bastard!".  I want a can, even if it's empty.
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Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 02:34:23 PM »
Here ya go and it's easy to remember.
1/3 castor oil. (order a gallon from sig)
1/3 kerosene  (buy from hardware store)
1/3 ether (use John Deere starting fluid)
1-2% amyl nitrate or cetane booster from an auto parts store.

It works well. I usually make a still sort of containment thing to get the ether out of the pressurized can. It boils at room temp.

This is a general recipe so it should be good to go. Make small batches as the ether can escape even with the can closed. If you have old fuel, a 15 second shot of JD starting fluid inside the liquid of the can, will refresh the mix. The signs of too little ether is hard starting. The compression screw should not be adjusted to make old fuel ignite.

Hope this helps.

Ken

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 03:59:00 PM »
Hi Tim and thanks for the info, but I live in Canada so ordering is out of the question because of postal restrictions and it would make using the diesel prohibitive in cost because of the exorbitant shipping costs.

Hello Ken and thank you for the excellent info.  I had no idea that John Deere starting fluid was ether!  Living in a farming community means I will have NO trouble finding the odd can!  Also, people around here still use kerosene heaters in sheds, garages, etc., so that's not a problem to get either.  The amyl nitrate or cetane booster....what is that used for in automotive?  Is it a fuel booster?

I love the idea of not having to mess around with glow plugs, igniters, starters, etc.  Just fill, flip and fly!  I know there is lots of talk about how messy it is, but you have to clean your ship after flying in either case, so I could never figure out what the big deal was.
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 04:15:15 PM »
Hey Glenn:  Sorry.  Of course, if you speak English you must live in the states, right?
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Offline BillLee

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 04:18:41 PM »
Here ya go and it's easy to remember.
1/3 castor oil. (order a gallon from sig)
1/3 kerosene  (buy from hardware store)
1/3 ether (use John Deere starting fluid)
1-2% amyl nitrate or cetane booster from an auto parts store.

Way too much castor oil. Drop to 20-25% and replace wth kerosene.

It works well. I usually make a still sort of containment thing to get the ether out of the pressurized can.

It boils at room temp.

Only if it's a VERY warm room. See  http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927164

IThis is a general recipe so it should be good to go. Make small batches as the ether can escape even with the can closed. If you have old fuel, a 15 second shot of JD starting fluid inside the liquid of the can, will refresh the mix. The signs of too little ether is hard starting. The compression screw should not be adjusted to make old fuel ignite.

Hope this helps.

Ken
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 04:44:08 PM »
Glenn,
The simplest diesel fuel is to get John Deer starter fluid (80 % either) 35%, mix in 40% kero and 25% (50/50) klotz/castor.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 11:35:53 PM »
Glenn...trust me on this. Only buy one diesel engine, make some fuel, start and run the engine, fly the engine, and then decide if you (and your Mrs.) can withstand the stink. You will not be welcome in a restaurant after a single diesel flight. Phewww!  y1 Steve
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Offline Evgeny Khromov

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 12:43:25 AM »
I have thought about diesel engines for a long, long time, because it is hard for me to get regular fuel of any sort.  I live way out in the boonies, so its darned hard to get to a hobby shop.  The thing that has stopped me is how to make the fuel.  Whats the formula and how is it stored? H^^
I use many older USSR diesel engine. KMD-2.5, Ritm-2.5, Marz-2,5, MK-17, OS 25FP with davis diesel head. Best performance for stunt/combat/race KMD-2.5. For stunt OS 25FP with 10x6 prop.
Power and run independent of the fuel composition. Standard recipe 33% ether, 33%kero, 33% Oil( 50%castor/50% MS20 Oil(aviation oil))
increases engine power amyl nitrite 1-3%  Popers))) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppers
More kerosin 45%, engine work but less power if without  amyl nitrite
Only castor oil 33% long life for engine less power.
Ether main component, can be found in Liquid start for diesel cars http://www.ekpv.ru/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/fdf918a2d5561a02e7e2f04d55a8fd18.jpg

I have a similar situation. I am fuel ordering from another country. I live in Dushanbe in Central Asia and buy fuel in Moscow Russia. I bay fuel the year ahead.
In your place I would have bought charger on solar energy. And I did not use diesel engines.
Sorry for my and google translation)))

Offline Daniel_Munro

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 12:45:06 AM »
The brew varies a lot for different engines. I've got several different tins of diesel made up for different engine. Here is a good chart that I found on Carlsons website. Getting ether and DII is trickier these days too.
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Offline Evgeny Khromov

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2016, 12:48:46 AM »
Glenn...trust me on this. Only buy one diesel engine, make some fuel, start and run the engine, fly the engine, and then decide if you (and your Mrs.) can withstand the stink. You will not be welcome in a restaurant after a single diesel flight. Phewww!  y1 Steve
Excellent advice, I for this reason, I avoid diesel engines. From the smell of the house, my head hurts

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 09:30:02 AM »
Glenn...trust me on this. Only buy one diesel engine, make some fuel, start and run the engine, fly the engine, and then decide if you (and your Mrs.) can withstand the stink. You will not be welcome in a restaurant after a single diesel flight. Phewww!  y1 Steve

I heard someplace -- I think it was on Stunthanger, in a different thread -- that if you use scentless lamp oil the smell is much reduced.  I don't know this for fact, however.
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2016, 06:20:03 PM »
Tim is correct about the lamp oil. I believe the lingering aroma is from the kero. In liquid form the ether has a strong smell but the stuff that gets everything reeking is the aromatics in the kero. I have thought about just taking the straight John Deer starter fluid and mixing with 25% mineral oil and go. I have heard this will work but, the old Drone Diesel (this engine was the "electric" of its day, fixed compression, big prop, tons of torque) fuel was simply 75% ether, 25% straight weight 20 motor oil. With the fixed compression they needed fuel with a wide range fuel/air ratio, this was the ether. To keep it from having detonation the mineral all was used instead of castor. The mineral oil calms the ether and allows smooth running. This works with the older long stroke diesel and gives good power. Not sure this will work with a modern short stroke, higher rpm diesel, but it might and would be simple to mix.

Best,   DennisT 

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2016, 06:32:04 PM »
Well fellow fliers, I now have a head full of advice to think through!  I may decide to give up on my diesel thoughts as it just sounds too complicated.  I can't do complicated any more.  So I'll ponder all the great advice and see what percolates to the top! H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2016, 10:39:51 PM »
FWIW, one Christmas about 1962, my brother and I both got OS Max III .35's. Mine CL, his R/C. We couldn't get either to run on glow fuel, but I had some diesel fuel around from running my Rivers 2.5cc. We discussed the Max III's and decided to try to run them on straight diesel fuel...which worked fine for both. After a couple of tanks, we switched to glow fuel and they ran fine. My theory is that the glowplugs were too cold or possibly the battery too weak, tho we usually used a Ni-Cad or lead acid 2 volt battery in those days. I think now a hotter glowplug would have done the deed.

But the point is that you can run a glow engine on diesel fuel, tho it may not run the way you wish...it would still stink as much as a real diesel engine should. So, if you have a glow engine, mix up some glow fuel and give it a try. Then you can experience the aroma without much expenditure.  #^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Lane Puckett

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2016, 09:16:54 PM »
download the diesel fuel recipes from the Barton CL engine forum, the file has 44 recipes
http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6814&start=0

then get your John Deere starting fluid, kero heating fuel, and castor oil.  At a truck stop or well supplied auto store you can get the Amsoil Cetane Boost.  Don't mess with amyl nitrate that is also a ignition stabilizer.  Just follow one of  the recipes on the barton forum excel sheet.

Deciding which fuel mix will depend on the diesel motor you have.  Plain bearing older motor higher castor, current F2C ball bearing motor you can get away with a much lower oil content.  If I remember right Ken Burdick is running the older plain bearing motors hence his fuel mix will work well for them.

The beauty of the John Deere starting fluid is the composition of the stuff.  80% ether, 1% to 2% top end lubricant and the propellant is 18% to 19% propane.  So the way I get it out is to spray the whole can with a plastic tube into a beaker.  Done at room temp or really anything over about -43 degrees F. and the propane gases off.  you now have ~98% ether.   The one or two percent top end lubricant has no impact on the resulting fuel mix.  At least in back to back testing with high end F2C planes it didn't change the speed or range.  Compared medical ether to JD starting fluid, all the remaining components were exactly the same.

Keep your fuel in the backpacking fuel bottles they seal much better than about any other fuel bottles I've seen.

The fuel stinks, bad.  Once you get over that and have a source for the fuel materials it is an interesting learning experience in working with the motors.

Offline Lane Puckett

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2016, 09:35:49 PM »
found the MSDS for you on the JD ether
http://www.greenpartstore.com/assets/images/bulletins/2012/re556468_msds.pdf
in any case the stuff that isn't ether gases off at room temp other than the upper end lubricant at <1%

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 11:27:12 AM »
Excellent advice, I for this reason, I avoid diesel engines. From the smell of the house, my head hurts

After years of running diesels I finally wised up and added candle scent to the fuel. It only takes a few drops to make the aroma palatable to most around you. Of course then you have to figure out which scent want to stink after running a diesel. Perhaps that's why Eric Cluton [AKA Dr Diesel] adds vanilla to his fuel.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Making fuel for diesel engines
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 06:58:31 PM »
The way you get the ether liquid out of the JD spray can is documented but to save you search time I will outline.

First, get in a open outdoor area. Do not have any open flame around. Put on some leather work gloves and safety glasses. Take the JD spray can, turn it upside down and spray out the propellant (you need to hold it vertical to get just the propellant).

Once it stops spraying/hissing take the can and put it into either an ice bucket with lots of ice or the frig freezer section. Let it cool for an hour.

Take it out and again turn it over and try to spray out any remaining propellant. Next, put on the work gloves/safety glasses. While it is still cold take an ice pick and punch four holes in the top edge of the can at the joint of the bottom and top edge of the can, three on one side and one directly across to act as the vent. Pour the liquid into a dark color bottle with a good tight sealing cap (dark brown glass works great but the dark heavy oil plastic bottle will also work).

Now you can mix your fuel in a metal can with a tight sealing cap. Keep the mixed fuel cool and out of the sun. Go fly.

Best,    DennisT

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