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Author Topic: FAI fuel question  (Read 5711 times)

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2019, 09:42:22 PM »
Hmm.

1) The link shows that having a quart of prope delivered via UPS from Red Max Fuels is a simple matter.

2) While prope is primarily used in model fuels both to ease starting and to keep the engine lit, it does have the same property as the gasoline, acetone and benzole (whatever that is) of producing more BTUs than either methanol or nitromethane.  That's my reading of the various links.

  I think propylene oxide is primarily an oxygen contributor when used as a model fuel, so you would want to add some fuel, not use less. It would probably decompose spontaneously from catalytic action of the platinum of the concentration was high enough, but not in the amount you could plausibly use in a glow engine.

     Brett

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2019, 05:58:49 AM »
Again referring to the chart linked above, prope requires a leaner mixture than methanol or nitro, more akin to the acetone / gas.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2019, 08:37:06 AM »
Kind of surprised that no one suggested adding propylene oxide.

http://fhsoils.com/product/hp-booster-prope/

Hi Peter                 
 Some  fuel makers  have  quit  using  this chemical  because  it is  a carcinogen,  I stopped using it because  it is  so hard  to keep,  You need  to keep it in a  glass  bottle, as plastic ones  keep blowing up, the jug get very fat, gets a lot of pressure on it , and every time you open it is  blows  air out of the jug . it evaporates  extremely fast plus warning is below :

Potential Acute Health Effects:

Eyes:  Very Hazardous in case of eye contact, vapors and liquid may cause severe eye irritation with redness, tearing, burning, swelling of the conjunctiva and corneal burns. Damage may be permanent.

Skin:  Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant/permeator).  Contact may cause severe irritation with redness, pain and severe burns or blisters. Propylene oxide may be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts causing systemic effects similar to those listed under ingestion and inhalation. Propylene oxide is a skin sensitizer and may cause an allergic skin reaction. Dilute solutions may be more irritating than undiluted materials.

Ingestion:  Swallowing may cause severe burns to the mouth, throat and stomach with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May cause central nervous system depression with headache, dizziness, drowsiness, drunkenness and collapse.  May be fatal due to respiratory failure.  Aspiration may occur during swallowing or vomiting resulting in lung damage.

Inhalation:  Inhalation of vapors or mists may cause mucous membrane or upper respiratory tract irritation with central nervous system depression. Symptoms include headaches, dizziness, coughing, narcosis, drunkenness, incoordination, nausea, vomiting, and collapse. High vapor concentrations may cause unconsciousness, coma or death.

 

Potential Chronic Health Effects:

General Effects:  Very hazardous in case of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.  Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant permeator),  Skin: Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause delayed secondary burns, ulcers or superficial scarring. Inhalation: Studies with animals have shown chronic effects such as growth depression, lung and slight liver injury.  Ingestion:  Studies with animals have shown chronic effects such as loss of body weight, gastric irritation and slight liver injury.

CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified 2 (Reasonably anticipated.) by NTP.

MUTAGENIC EFFECTS:  Not available.

TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.

DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.  The substance is toxic to lungs, mucous membranes.  Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
CARCINOGENICITY:  Propylene oxide appears to induce cancers at the site of exposure in experimental animals.  Sarcomas occurred at injection sites, and nasal and GI cancers occurred with chronic exposure.

MUTAGENICITY:  Propylene oxide has been found to be mutagenic in experimental animals including salmonella typhimurium, escherichia coli, drosophila spermatozoa and spermatids, and neurospora crassa assays.

NEUROTOXICITY: In high concentrations propylene oxide has caused CNS effects, including CNS depression, headache, motor weakness, incoordination, ataxia, coma, and neuropathy in experimental animal studies.  Peripheral neuropathy has been reported in chronic studies with experimental animals.

TERATOLOGY:  Inhalation development toxicity studies with rats exposed to propylene oxide vapor at concentrations of 500 ppm showed fetotoxicity and developmental abnormalities.

Offline Abi

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2019, 02:48:41 PM »
FAI fuel is 17% oil, 50/50 castor/synthetic.

P.S. Our common friend, Steven Yampolsky, is sending his regards and suggests calling S&W Fuels: their FAI mix is just 5% castor.
Abi
السلام عليكم

Offline Reptoid

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2019, 09:59:32 PM »
FAI fuel is 17% oil, 50/50 castor/synthetic.

P.S. Our common friend, Steven Yampolsky, is sending his regards and suggests calling S&W Fuels: their FAI mix is just 5% castor.
Depends on "Which" FAI fuel you're talking about
 Legal FAI fuel was always 20 % Oil and 80% Methanol and still is for free flight, speed events, and Tether cars Worldwide and is normally supplied by contest management and mandatory to use. F2D combat fuel was 20% castor, 10% Nitro for many years until 2019. New F2D rules require 15 % oil (any) and 5% nitro (stupid rule change IMHO) You can get it from Ritches Brew (5% castor, 10% syn, 5% Nitro) or???
Regards,
       Don
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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2019, 11:41:02 AM »
So Ted, does this mean you are going to go back to 5 or 10% nitro for this weekend's contest? No matter, I'll bring the FAI fuel anyway...just in case. Glad this issue had a happy ending.  ;D

Your question answers itself....  I expect I'll use straight 5% but don't want to abandon the other (your) resource as I'm more perplexed than convinced as I sort of preferred the run on the FAI brew.  Ergo I appreciate that you have room for it in your vehicle!

Right now, however, my M&M presence is no longer a sure thing as Shareen's knee transplant has turned out to be the lesser of her ambulatory problems in the last week or two.  Pain from a bone spur in her opposite ankle has increased significantly in the last month...likely due to more reliance on that leg due to the new knee status...and her second visit to the podiatrist this morning has her looking into an ASAP MRI appointment and a likely near term surgery to address that issue.

Oi vey, growing old versus the alternative.

Ted

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: FAI fuel question
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2019, 01:12:09 PM »
I use to use Coleman stove fuel in all my spark ignition engines. Now I run Crown stove fuel, (white gas) as it is somewhat cheaper. Both available at Walmart. I also use Walmart Super Tech standard 2 stroke oil. Runs cool and clean.
Jim Kraft


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