News:



  • April 19, 2024, 04:45:17 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40  (Read 1480 times)

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« on: October 17, 2017, 11:33:00 PM »
My FP.40 powered Twister kept getting shorter fuel runs on a full tank. Finally my pit man called me back from walking to the handle to show me fuel dancing around the base of the venturi and spilling off the side. I took it home and removed the venturi and Supertigre NVA, checked for cracks in the case and venturi, cleaned it all with acetone and brake parts cleaner, and replaced the NVA with a brand new one out of the Supertigre package.

I sealed the venturi base and behind the hex nuts with RTV. I also replaced all the fuel lines and the filter. I pressure checked the tank with it submerged under water and it's tight as can be with no bubbles.

When I test ran it at the field Sunday, I could see it getting wet around the top of the collet as if fuel was creeping past the threads and coming out the top. But not nearly as bad as I'd seen the previous week before replacing it.

I went ahead and set the engine to run like I want to launch it. After shutting it off, I tightened the collet enough that I could not turn the needle. Cranked it for a launch and it all looked dry, and I flew a full pattern with 12 laps after the clover. A perfect run, even a good 2-4 break.

But this is a problem. If I'm about to fly an official flight and need to tweak the needle, I'd like to have that option without worrying about it leaking. What  I do not understand is how it's pushing fuel past the threads out the top while running on straight vacuum. No muffler pressure or bladder pressure, just a forward pointing open-air uniflow vent on a metal tank.

Any ideas before I rely on this plane in Huntersville this coming weekend?
Thanks,
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 07:33:23 AM »
Loosen the collet just enough to allow needle to turn,  force on [it will be hard but I've done it] a piece of the small 1/2a tubing over the needle and lock collet.  The small tubing will be the seal..
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13747
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 10:03:41 AM »
HI  Most likely   it is  not leaking there,  the venturi needle vale  has suction in that area, no positive pressure, the odds are that you have fuel from the front bushing being pushed out and it goes directly to the venturi/NVA  and collects there, the only other place it cone from is from the top of the venturi, most happens when you are running very rich.  I would look very close at the  drive washer  to see this, and it is hard to see  as the fuel will move backwards very quickly

Randy

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 12:17:40 PM »
Thanks, Randy. I did look to see if I saw any nosebleed and it was a little wet, so maybe I didn't look close enough. The prior spraybar had 2 holes when the problem was worst. The new one has just one hole and ran out the tank with time left over, so maybe it was coming out of the top of the venturi too.

Maybe the new 1-hole spraybar fixed it. I am running it rich enough to do a healthy 2-4 break, chugging around the flats in a full 4 especially while flying into the wind. This one was given to me as a "tuned" engine but I've never looked inside.

And the fuel tube seal is what I do on my 1/2As too Allan, but it was always to keep them from sucking air. Or leaking on the bladder fed engines.

Good stuff. I might just lean it out a bit and use some tubing to keep the needle from turning by itself.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13732
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 12:38:52 PM »
Randy is right, there should at most be negligible positive pressure there and more likely, negative.

  While I can't immediately explain what you are seeing, ST needle/spraybars are probably the least good of the commonly-used types. they are also different from copy-to-copy and the fit of a particular needle in a particular spraybar matters sometimes (although usually from a vibration standpoint rather than leakage). If it was me I would replace it with whatever PA or RO-Jett assembly fits it. The original OS system is also just fine but you have already drilled out the hole and have a proper venturi for the larger spraybars.

    Brett

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 05:28:01 PM »
This evening, I'll go get measurements and a part # so I can be sure and tell y'all exactly what I've got here.

Although the ST NVAs are so popular, I personally like the OS valves. They have a stout needle and if you really must have a between-click adjustment, toss the spring clip and use a fuel tube. I get along with the clicker just fine. I know the new NV I installed was made by ST, and its dimensions are the same as the old one except for the twin spray holes. It could be a knockoff.

The holes through the crankcase stack were bored wider than necessary for the spraybar, but not so wide the faces of the hex nuts don't cover them. And the venturi thru-holes are bored with a proper snug fit. If I remember correctly, these spraybars are the same diameter as the OS one I measured in my drawer.

It looks like if I had a new OS unit, it would be an exact replacement, even volumetrically. I could cannibalize one of my FPs if necessary. Or if you come to H'ville, Randy, I'll get a new one from you, for a spare if nothing else. It did run well in its current config... once.

Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 06:56:19 PM »
If I remember correctly, these spraybars are the same diameter as the OS one I measured in my drawer.
No they're not. They're 5/32 and 9/64.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13747
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 07:49:22 PM »
The standard  OS  NVA  is  .135 thou   the  ST   PA  and most others  are  .157 ,  so if you have it drilled for a  ST  NVA  the  OS  is  not a good fit any longer, and  maybe you should think about  using  a  Enya  , St  or  PA  NVA  in it

Randy

Offline BYU

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 477
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 08:04:16 PM »
I strongly recommend you get hold of one of Randys needle valve assemblies.

They have a built in seal and work superbly, Randy also sells packing sealing washers so that you can get them to fit right. I wish I had "discovered" them earlier in my life.





Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 08:10:34 PM »
Okay, Randy, I actually do have an old Enya NV, I'll toss it in the box.

Being the last minute and I'm done with rushing around to get ready, I'll fly it with the new ST and hope for the best. I can use the Profile event on Saturday as a trial run and decide if anything needs changing before Sunday morning.

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to give me some advice.
Rusty

I strongly recommend you get hold of one of Randys needle valve assemblies.

They have a built in seal and work superbly, Randy also sells packing sealing washers so that you can get them to fit right. I wish I had "discovered" them earlier in my life.
If I see Randy, I'll definitely check out his wares.  It's too late now for this week, so I'll dance wit the one I brung to the party.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4983
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 08:19:07 PM »
If Anyone hasnt said so , on the S T NVA ;

the ' tightening down immovable ' on a NEW ONE will likely seat things ,
so after with it set ' firm ' , it'll be fine .

Though they do like to be set fairly firm , or just backed off 1/8 turn on the collet from frooze .

if theres naff all resistance on turning the needle , likely as not theyre not fully sealed .

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Leaking fuel around NVA on my FP.40
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 09:18:12 PM »
 :D Thanks, Matt for your always eloquent observations.

That pretty much slams the door on this topic. Thanks, all.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here