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Author Topic: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration  (Read 2139 times)

Offline GallopingGhostler

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K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« on: September 14, 2018, 08:48:14 PM »
Several months ago, I purchased as only bidder from E-Bay a K&B .35 Stallion. Photos made it appear to be a clean engine. Seller mentioned surface defects as casting occlusions typical for engines of its era. When it arrived, a quick look over, it appeared to have been freshly and carefully sand blasted. I put it aside.

Recently I got around to cleaning it up. Antifreeze simmer for a day helped to free it up. Engine head screws felt like they were Locktited, one screw broke at the head. Using a Leatherman knife blade and careful wedging and hammering with my needle nose plier handles on the blade, freed the head. Removed the back in similar manner. There was lighter rust on the back of the crankshaft and heavy rust in the combustion chamber.

I returned the engine to the antifreeze bath for further soaking. Then using the Leatherman knife blade again, slowly edged the cylinder out enough, then used a putty knife and further tapping until the cylinder was free.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 08:51:53 PM »
Using steel wool, I removed the rust from all steel pieces including the cylinder, crankshaft and piston. I also removed the sand blasted surface from the aluminum, then applied Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish to removed the steel wood brushed look from the aluminum.

Engine doesn't exhibit heavy wear and where internal corrosion occurred wasn't in critical areas that would affect compression, cause leaks or compromise mechanical strength on machined surfaces. It should be a good runner with good mileage left in it.

I deviated from its historical appearance by painted the head green. With it cleaned up, the surface corrosion defects are more apparent. The green makes it my special engine. I replaced the factory screws with stainless steel Allen cap head screws.

To expedite assembly, I substituted Permatex Ultra Grey RTV to seal the cylinder to crankcase and to head gasket areas. If compression is too high, I can manufacture gaskets for it later.

I'm pleased with the results. The screws are just set to allow the RTV to cure. After, I will torque them down. Some time near future I will bench run the engine.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 09:54:14 PM »
Wow!!! A little elbow grease goes a long way!

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 10:03:49 PM »
George,

A labor of love, for sure!  It must have been used as a surf casting fishing weight to cause corrosion and rust like that.

Pretty amazing what you did with it. I was surprised at the satin surface of the case, when I read your last step was mag polish. What did you do different that made it satin and not shiny? Also, did you re-blue the cylinder fins. They look really clean on the finished engine.

Every time you fly it, you can say that it absolutely would have ended up in the junkyard--except for your rescue. Great job!

Dave

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 10:27:28 PM »
Thanks, Dane and Dave.

Regarding satin versus mirror, some of it has to do with the angle of light toward the engine the angle of my camera lens. Also has to do with how much elbow grease I wanted to use. I used fine steel wool on the engine to remove the sand blasted finish. This gave it a brushed look. Then I used the mag polish to remove the brushed look. Where most pitted I used more elbow grease, why it shines more than in other places.

I have no idea except circumstantial evidence on this engine, but I wonder if it may have been a field find. It couldn't have been submerged, had to be in a place where it was subject to periodic dampness like a crashed or run away airplane (FF or RC) out in a field somewhere. Appears that water moisture wicked in through the paper gaskets at the cylinder base and head, and a little at the back. This is where corrosion is heaviest. The corroded spot on the crankshaft was where the piston was traveling up to start the compression stroke and stopped there with the exhaust port barely closed. Thus very little or no water got into the crankcase.

If it was in a place where it doesn't rain much might have sat out in a field for years until found. It was readily apparent after I started disassembly and cleaning up the outside that it was water corrosion, not manufacturing hot pour casting defects.

I didn't pay much for this engine and learned a few things, being restored will just make it that much more enjoyable to fly.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2018, 12:43:49 AM »
Thanks for the added info, George.

Hope you enjoy your "new" greenhead.

Dave

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 09:45:55 AM »
I have no idea except circumstantial evidence on this engine, but I wonder if it may have been a field find. It couldn't have been submerged, had to be in a place where it was subject to periodic dampness like a crashed or run away airplane (FF or RC) out in a field somewhere...

Or just left in some unheated space in an area of the country subject to humidity and temperature swings?
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »
Or just left in some unheated space in an area of the country subject to humidity and temperature swings?
Tim, it could be a barn find, we'll probably never really know. The good is, now I have an unusual and interesting story to tell, not much different from someone who restores an old rusted out barn find car to its former glory. It is an example for others. Now they know that even though an old engine may appear in the rough, that further investigation may reveal it is worth saving with additional work and be put to good use.

Also I learned further that tell tale signs from the photos, had I been more careful to review, would have revealed to me as I am sure as others, that this might be a problem engine to start with. Not sufficiently familiar with factory metal casting occlusion defects, I bit. A further look at the seller's photos, the head screws have no zinc or black oxide or rust. Old zinc screws will rust over time due to air humidity. They are too clean and too bare steel in appearance, which indicated they were media blasted.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 08:07:35 AM »
Dave, further clarification, I did not polish the backplate, just steel wooled it. Since this part is hidden by part of a profile aircraft's fuselage, tank and fuel line plumbing, I considered it busy work to polish so I didn't.

Yesterday I torqued down the head screws, mounted a 10x6 prop then applied liberal amounts of 5-30W motor oil to the exhaust port and venturi opening. Flipped the prop and rotated the engine through all angles to get the interior surfaces coated. It has like new engine compression.

The back plate has light wear on it from the nylon crank spacer rubbing against it along with Castor residue before I cleaned it, so it was run in the past. I'm stoked. What first appeared to be a mistake in buying has turned out a decent engine anyway.

When I locate where I stored my engine stand, will do a run up report.

Online GERALD WIMMER

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 07:18:48 PM »
Great work George!
It's nice when you can bring them back from the dead and get them running or even better again get them flying a model, a very satisfying feeling.
Have restored many old engines myself but sometimes you get one too ruined with corrosion in the wrong places or breakages you can't fix or missing critical parts and end up in my parts engines box waiting hopefully for that vital part...oneday.


Regards Gerald

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 08:15:39 PM »
You're welcome, Gerald. Already have the right plane picked out for it, a Berkeley 42" Interceptor 35 kit that I've had stashed away for a while. The Stallion's heavier weight and the shorter nose of the Interceptor should work really well without having to add tail weight.

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2022, 10:04:42 PM »
Got another Stallion .35 from the bay. This time, when I rotate the piston, it has subport injection (gap between piston skirt and lower edge of cylinder exhaust port.  :o Nope, a previous owner installed the piston and cylinder 180 degrees. The piston cross scavenge fence is on the exhaust side instead of the intake side, head is reversed too.

Engine is otherwise fairly clean outside. There is faint signs that it was mounted at one time, but the markings are light. It doesn't need a complete tear down, just reorient the cylinder, piston and head. Then a light exterior cleaning.

Got it apart by carefully tapping the edge of a pocket knife blade to ease off the head, then using a flat screwdriver as a drift, gently tap out the steel fin cylinder from the bottom of the cylinder with the backplate off.

Gasket in head seems to be reusable, left in place. Interesting how the intake side of the combustion chamber is completely filled by head at TDC, pushing mixture to combustion side of the fence. Noticed combustion side is sloped back toward intake, to keep fuel charge from exiting until combusted. Perhaps why this engine doesn't do the 4-2-4 break?

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2022, 10:13:45 PM »
It was odd that another gasket, only a third of the circumference was on the underside of the cylinder. Removing it, found the regular gasket, one with graphite impregnated paper was under it. Made up a new gasket from the flap of a Ritz Crackers cardboard box.

Got it all put back together again, now with cylinder, piston and head properly oriented. The backplate seeps a little machine oil I used for lubrication, gasket is bad. Next, will be redoing that to restore its seal.

Engine now flips over like a brand new engine. Seems a previous owner disassembled, got it wrong, couldn't get it to run, abandoned effort. For a song, I now got essentially a new engine ready for proper break in. This one looks exactly like the one in Peter Chinn's 1964 write up in Sceptre Flight Engine Tests article archive. It has the thinner exhaust port web. The other engine was a decade later. K&B drilled a hole in the thicker exhaust port web and mounted a movable choke baffle plate for reliable R/C idle.

Looks like I scored big this time around. ;D

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2022, 11:09:20 AM »
Such a thrill when an engine is torn down and restored to running condition after the owner didn't follow indtructuins or ask for help.   One of my better Fox's was one someone bent the push rod on trying to disassemble it.  Losy count o number of engines that I have brought back to life.  Even those with low compression.  Nothing like an electric finger and 3-n-one oil. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Chuck Matheny

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2022, 11:10:51 PM »
Years ago an Old Timer gave me a Fox Rocket 35 that I never checked internally...I just ran it and it screamed.
It really was impressive for a few minutes but  then it seized up.
The wrist pin keeper [made of very fine spring steel wire] was so rusty that it popped out of place.
I haven't read every word of this thread [maybe this has already been mentioned] but I just wanted to share that horror story. :X

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2022, 05:37:27 AM »
Yes, I agree, John. I enjoy it when I am able to fix another's problem and put the engine back to good use. 6 years ago, I got a used Enya .19-VI TV for a bargain. However, when I received it, had a bent prop shaft. The prop wobbled when mounted. It was also missing the prop nut and washer, found one that fit in my motorcycle salvage parts bin and a fender washer in my hardware bin. Drilled / reamed the washer to proper shaft size. Took my plastic faced beater hammer, gave the prop shaft a couple sharp whacks while rotating the crankshaft, until I had no perceptive runout.

Lo and behold, I was able to straighten it, put a 9x4 prop on it on the test bench, bingo! Ran without a hitch even to full throttle. Engine has like new compression. Be a good engine on my Robin Hood 25.

Chuck, sorry to hear about your Fox .35 Rocket grenading on you. Stuff sometimes happens.

I read recently of a man who cowled his OS Max .30 Wankel on a scale cabin job after successful use on an Ugly Stick. Cowl had insufficient cooling holes. Engine runs hot, OS warns about adequate cooling, cowling should have twice the exit ventilation as entry. Turned an expensive engine into a paper weight after a couple flights. Seriously overheated, it lost compression, no doubt ruined the fine fitting machined rotor. (Has no rotor side seals, only apex tip seals. At least he didn't bite the big one like the R/C turbine engine guys; one Figure-9'd his $30,000 twin engine with a realistic fireball ending.)

Also interesting according to article on Sceptre Flite, Peter Chinn's write up, the earlier versions prior to the PII has a precision ground Meehanite rotor (just like our iron piston steel sleeve engines) and steel chamber parts. Those, it was recommended to run 25% Castor oil fuel and mild nitro (just like our earlier engines, too).

Would love to have a Wankel, but they were close to $500 new. Now on the 'bay, they are commanding ultra ridiculous prices, new close to $1K. My stash of K&B's, Enya's, HB, Fuji, OS, Cox, OK, Thunder Tiger, Magnum, Sanye, Norvel, Fox, Gilbert, Testor's Red, Blue, Black (Series 21) and plain (old man McCoy's pre-Testor) engines didn't cost near that at all.

Speaking of checking an engine's internals prior to running like your Fox .35 Rocket, Chuck, back in the mid 1980's, I bought 2 Fuji .099S-III R/C engines on closeout from Hobby Shack for only $10 each new. I took them home, removed the back plate. They were full of metallic swarf. I further disassembled them, and flushed the crankcase and parts with solvent, before reassembling them. If I ran them as-is, it would have ruined them. Something happened to the Fuji factory in Japan before they folded. Guess they were so pressed on putting out engines, they were just machining and assembling without cleaning.

First time I posted about an engine I rescued 4 years ago, but since I originated the thread and this engine was also a Stallion, thought I'd save some server disk space and continue the thread post Covid.

Also got another Stallion, this time an R/C one. It seems to be a low mileage one also, but missing the exhaust baffle for mufflerless good idle. Next will be to run a bench test of these two I repaired. Also got another Testor .35 Red Head I picked up off the 'bay for under $30 shipping included. Will post about it in another thread. Also picked up a Testor .35 Blue Head R/C during Covid.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 09:32:51 AM by GallopingGhostler »

Offline Christopher Root

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2022, 07:08:22 AM »
Nice work! Is that the original NVA? 

C R

P.S. Are you in Northern NM?

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2022, 12:21:17 PM »
Nice work! Is that the original NVA?  C R  P.S. Are you in Northern NM?
Thanks, NVA is original and the needle too, just missing the spring ratchet. No, bordering middle of Texas Panhandle, 95 miles northwest of Lubbock, 95 miles southwest of Amarillo, and 95 miles north of Roswell. Rode my motorcycles a number of times to Chama up north near Colorado, but that is an 8 hour ride from here.

Offline Christopher Root

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2022, 07:49:59 PM »
Sweet!  Love NM. Worked a summer at Philmont Scout Ranch, Cimarron.  I could live there again in an instant!!

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: K&B .35 Stallion Restoration
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2023, 09:05:58 PM »
Finally installed a needle valve ratchet salvaged from a Testors .35 RH parts engine, now is complete.


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