News:



  • April 18, 2024, 09:05:06 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Insert into an FP 40 venturi  (Read 2103 times)

Offline Allen Eshleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« on: March 13, 2019, 04:36:54 AM »
I have an OS FP 40 venturi that I would like to modify for use in the Magnum 25GP.  Is it possible, good, alright??? to use some kind of tubing as an insert to narrow it a bit for use with the Magnum or an FP 25?  If so what are good options for inserts?

Online Brad LaPointe

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 331
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 06:26:57 AM »
If you only want to restrict the flow pantyhose secured with a rubber band over the opening is an easy way . Extra layers can be added for more restriction .

On the other hand if what you propose is to sleeve the outside of the insert to fit a different engine contact Mr. Lee . He makes intakes for various engines . A proper fitting intake will be much less of a headache. 

Brad

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1108
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 09:21:24 AM »
Brad,

Does that really work, adding the pantyhose to make a drilled-out venturi hole effectively smaller?  Never heard of that technique, but interested to hear about it.  Presumably, the pantyhose would be secured with a tie-wire wrap, or similar.

Peter

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13732
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 10:49:53 AM »
I have an OS FP 40 venturi that I would like to modify for use in the Magnum 25GP.  Is it possible, good, alright??? to use some kind of tubing as an insert to narrow it a bit for use with the Magnum or an FP 25?  If so what are good options for inserts?

     Brass tubing works. Since you won't easily be able to find tubing that is a perfect fit, you can take tubing, split it lengthwise and take out a section, or, take smaller tubing and expand it to it will spring out against the outer wall. The discontinuity won't hurt anything. The spraybar will hold it in.

    The spraybar hole is another story. To reliably drill the hole, you will need to use something as a mandrel to keep it from collapsing. A piece of 1/4" aluminum rod would probably work for this size tubing. For an OS spraybar (.137/3.5 mm) I would use a #27 or 28 drill.

    This will all work OK in a pinch, however, plenty of people make venturis, and all that they would need is the necessary dimensions, and I expect many of the people doing this already have the dimensions and maybe actual venturis. I would strongly suggest a range of about .245-265 for an OS spraybar assembly, and forget the "venturi chart" that goes around periodically, since it's wrong and it's based on a faulty idea.

    The stock OS 25 venturi is .257/6.5 mm, that is a good starting point *if you run the engine as it was intended to be run*, that is, at around 12-13,000 rpm or so in the air, with a 9-4 or 10-4 prop. If you want to run it at low revs with a 9-6 or 10-6, then it will need to much smaller to have acceptable fuel draw at the much lower power level.

   Brett
   

Offline Geoff Goodworth

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 02:42:35 PM »
Is Scott Riese still making venturis?

He made some for my GP 25s and GP 40s some years ago and they work really well.

They are sprinkler types retained with an ST type NVA in place of the pinch bolt.

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4983
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 09:00:06 PM »
The Taiwanese Magnum 25 GP ( NOT the Chinese one ) .
with the ' cinch bar ' for the carb ( as oposed to cross drilled for screws )
with the peripheral multi hole jets  :P,

Takes the Thunder Tiger & Royal C/L intake . Common to GP 40 type ( Plain Bearing ) & 44 .

ALSO ,

the Super Tigre ' C ' 35 plain bearing Combat / Stunt ; and the MVVS D7 intakes fall right on .

Theres drivle on the Fox 19/25 BB Schnurle intake ( search ) that filed down from 11 to 10 mm Dia ,will do too .

If youve any lying about . A Custom Sprinkler long one might be better . Tho cinch bar hole fwd. gets prop & fingers in negative relationship at times .

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4983
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 09:06:56 PM »
bill bischoff  has vivid tecnicolour ASP 15 ? sport Goodyear venturies ( and S T Type spray bars )
that drop right in ( Ive gottem in my Magnum GP 25s ) cinch bolt type . N V A Above case thru insert - near Ex Port level .
( a picture of em here somewhere too . )

He is in the RACING section here .

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12808
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 09:37:57 PM »
Brad,

Does that really work, adding the pantyhose to make a drilled-out venturi hole effectively smaller?  Never heard of that technique, but interested to hear about it.  Presumably, the pantyhose would be secured with a tie-wire wrap, or similar.

Peter

Nylon mesh works great, but I haven't used pantyhose.  The kind I use comes wrapped around flowers, or you can get it at a fabric store.  I use hardware-store O-rings to hold it on.  Basically, I purposely use a slightly oversized venturi, and bring the engine into tune with the prop/airframe by adding layers of filter.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1466
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 03:16:50 AM »
             I use a nylon screw in which I tap the side of the venturi. Screwing it in all the way almost blocks the entire choke area, if it needs more air, I unscrew it. I have a spring between the head of the screw and the side of the venturi to prevent it from backing out.

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13732
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 07:27:22 AM »
Does that really work, adding the pantyhose to make a drilled-out venturi hole effectively smaller?  Never heard of that technique, but interested to hear about it.  Presumably, the pantyhose would be secured with a tie-wire wrap, or similar.

    It sort of works. The original use was as a filter and diffuser, the diffuser part being more important than the filtering. I first heard about it from Richard Oliver (for filtering purposes, which is a moderately effective thing - keeps your $125 piston/liner alive longer), and it works very nicely without requiring extra clearance required for something like a Bru-Line filter. It's not terrible effective as a filter, certainly not as good about excluding dirt/dust as a BruLine filter, but keeps out the big chunks.

    You take a square of panty-hose material about 1 1/4" square, stretch it over the intake, and hold it on with an o-ring (same one you use for the venturi seal). It has a small effect on the fuel draw, slightly increasing the draw, but only a little bit. It's much less effect than a .005" change in the venturi bore. But, it also ensures that there is no laminar flow, turbulating the air flowing in, and seemingly reducing the sensitivity to the direction the air hits the end of the venturi. It's a similar effect to making the intake longer.

    Of course, both effects are pooh-poohed by various people (with one pronouncement as recenty as last week), along with the even more critical spigot venturi* - fine with me, that just removes some of the competitors without me having to practice more. Unfortunately, not the ones I am habitually plagued with...

    Later, people realized that you could stack multiple layers to adjust the fuel draw by increasing the restriction.  I have no idea how to map multiple layers to an equivalent venturi diameter change, so it's entirely cut and try. Conceptually, it seems OK to me for fine-tuning, and I have tried about 3 layers and it does about what you would expect.  But, for other reasons, I haven't needed to chang anything about the venturi diameter or restrictions/filters since about 2004, Nitro is easier and more predictable for adjustments.

     Some of the lack of needing to change the venturi/restriction also comes from considering the other half of the fuel draw equation - how hard it is to get the fuel through the fuel system (flow restrictions/choke points/viscosity) - which I am predictably told *also* doesn't matter. David and I think otherwise, but why would you listen to us?  Again, to each his own.

    So, if you think you need more fuel draw, it's usually a quick change to try extra layers, and see what happens. My gut feel is that you are generally better off with the right size venturi and one diffuser layer than a too-big venturi and lots of restriction, but I have no particularly good evidence of that, and if you only have one venturi, you can solve your problem with a trip to any Safeway, hard to argue against it.

   Brett

*for almost anything we (we meaning anybody) currently do, successfully, you can find people who are sure beyond metaphysical certitude that it is wrong. I read a solemn description in a major model airplane magazine, in the year 2010, as to how "tuned pipes have been tried in stunt, but have proven to give no advantage". This after *having dominated the competition in overwhelming numbers since about 1990*; that is *for the previous 30 years*!  In the last few days, we have had a "if it wasn't on a Fox 35 it must not be important" sighting.

  Again, no one is compelled to do anything they don't believe in, people on the internet give advice, lots of it conflicts, you have to look at the record to figure out who you want to follow. Or do it based on your personal beliefs. There's no such thing as the engine setup police, the judges have the only opinion that matters.

Offline Dave Hull

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2019, 12:42:04 AM »
Some initial fuel mix viscosity (flow) tests now added to the thread on plastic clunk tanks.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/engine-set-up-tips/plastic-uniflow-clunk-tanks-46478/msg549038/#msg549038

Dave

Offline Allen Eshleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 04:58:54 AM »
I have stalled on this project due to the death of my wife after a 10 day battle with liver disease.  I will now have some time to tinker if I feel like it.

I was going to try to rig something.  One is a complete Smith NVA which I removed from something.  I'm not sure what engine it was from, OS. 40 FP, 40 LA or a Fox 35.  I don't have anything to measure it with.   

I will post to see if my picture worked.


Offline Allen Eshleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 05:06:54 AM »
Here is a better picture.

Offline Allen Eshleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 05:08:51 AM »
I think the one on the left is a ST NVA and the one next to the venturi is a Smith NVA.

Offline Bootlegger

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2710
Re: Insert into an FP 40 venturi
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 05:58:08 AM »

  Allen, I sent you a P/M  Gil
8th Air Force Veteran
Gil Causey
AMA# 6964


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here