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Author Topic: How to move a bushing thingy  (Read 1237 times)

Offline Shorts,David

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How to move a bushing thingy
« on: February 13, 2022, 01:20:49 PM »
Well, I THINK this brass bushing needs to be rotated 180 degrees. Any advice?

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2022, 12:17:50 AM »
Step zero:  be sure that the part needs to be reoriented before starting.

Step one:  MM Method....

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2022, 08:23:32 AM »
I did the oven thing. Sure enough the bushing started coming out but mechanically, once I got it half way I had to pull from the other side and it was pretty thin and delicate so I put it back and I'm going to use a Dremel to cut the bushing the way I need it. Hopefully I'll succeed since there's no parts to replace it if I don't.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2022, 08:00:27 PM »
I would find a punch, rod, drill blank or other armature of just the right diameter. Even a hardwood dowel might work depending on the degree of press fit. Then reheat your assembly and continue pressing. This should have the least potential for damage.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2022, 08:09:45 PM »
It has some resemblance to a O&R ignition front housing. Can't tell from the pics provided....

The "window" in the bushing is likely for the cam follower for the points.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2022, 08:17:49 PM »
It has some resemblance to a O&R ignition front housing. Can't tell from the pics provided....

   Ohlsson 60 sideport, maybe.   It is a bit difficult to see how it could get rotated to the wrong spot.

    Brett

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2022, 11:19:08 PM »
   Ohlsson 60 sideport, maybe.   It is a bit difficult to see how it could get rotated to the wrong spot.

    Brett

It's a fleetwind 60. In all probability I'm doing everything wrong and destroying the engine. However, I grinded the opening larger to get the timing at the right point in the stroke. Can't figure out how it used to work with the timing where it is. Maybe it didn't. Thursday I'll get a few minutes to remount it on the test stand and see if I'm a huge fool or actually figured out something. The jury is still out till then.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2022, 01:31:19 AM »
Is it possible that you are using a different set of points than the original item? Or installed backwards? The timing between the crank throw and the cam is likely machined into the crankshaft and not adjustable. (That is what I have seen on the few ignition engines I have played with.)  That means that the cam follower needs to be located in the original position, even if the points themselves (aftermarket item or repurposed from another engine) don't want to fit there. That could be an alternate explanation to "...the bushing rotated" theory.

Perhaps Floyd is familiar with your Fleetwood Mac 60 and can advise on proper points and location?

Dave



Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2022, 01:20:42 AM »
Maybe like this?

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2022, 03:26:26 PM »
I just had a knowledgeable friend check one of his Fleetwind 60s. The aperture for the points cam follower is in the same position as the picture you showed. The window begins on the left side (when looking forward) at about the horizontal centerline and then goes around something less than 180 degrees.

If yours wouldn't go together, then you likely have the wrong points (they look similar to O&R points?) or have something backwards.

Sorry I could not get you definitive information before "things happened."  If you need another engine case to get this fixed, there might be one available for purchase.

Dave

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2022, 08:34:53 PM »
Hi Dave, exactly like mine. No, I put it back together and can move the timing further, but still the same rpoblem. It pops, it smokes, it even flames, but it never runs. I think I'll switch back to gasoline. I'm running the fuel Floyd recommended, but as I recall, I had my biggest success, maybe five second runs, when I was using gasoline. I'll try it tomorrow and by flying by Sunday.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2022, 10:34:56 PM »
Never mind....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 10:54:48 PM by Dave Hull »

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2022, 09:45:27 AM »
This is an interesting discussion.  I'm going through an estate with a lot of 1930s and 1940s items, learning just a little about the points, coils, condensers, battery holders to get everything together to fly ignition.  Probably about fifty or one hundred ignition engines I'm offering.  If i'm not too busy with flying stunt, this year's Brodak's may be good to get an ignition demo.  I'm interested in learning the practical aspects, such as how to engage the battery, how to set the timing, etc.  Some automotive and motorcycle experience probably applies.

While the evolution of free flight designs 1930s/1940s is interesting, the period 1948-1952 was when quite a bit of the development of model engine and control line aircraft occurred.  While I was directly involved with a hobby shop in the 1972-1978 era, I have to imagine that sales were strong in the 1948-1952 era.

An offering:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/325048610544

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 02:32:36 PM »
My guess is that the points are not correct. Putting the lifter block on the points at a different location from the pivot would affect the timing quite a lot. Alternatively, the rear rotor/drum might not be assembled correctly, thus shifting the cam. I don't know squat about the Fleetwood .60, but I did hold one in my hands years ago at a swap meet and gave it a good looking over. It looked to me like it was actually a Scheuerle-ported engine, so I thought it might have some potential. It was also quite bulky and heavy, so I didn't buy it. For some reason, I think the seller wanted $45.  :o  Steve 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2022, 03:32:20 AM »
Steve,

Without the advantage of holding one of these Fleetwood Mac 60's in my hand, I do not understand your comment that "...the rear rotor/drum might not be assembled correctly, thus shifting the cam."  The points are at the front of the engine, and I assume, perhaps dangerously, that the ignition cam is machined into the crankshaft. So if there actually is a timing issue, it would stem from the cam follower making contact from a different position clockwise than it was designed. Thus, any aftermarket points or ignition module would need to be positioned to get the engine back in time.

If it had only popped and burped a few times, then I'd think that the timing was completely hosed. Back in the thread a ways it seems that it ran for variously 5 seconds or 20 seconds or...? If it was continuously firing, then simple timing isn't the whole story here. At least, that's what those symptoms suggest to me.

Dave

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 08:46:42 PM »
Yah, the spark only happens on the downstroke. Someone said it may be designed to run the other direction. Floyd said he'd never heard of such a thing. But, either it was designed that way or somehow the timing has gotten completely goofed and I can't figure out how. But I fixed it for now. I bought a different engine that still took a little tinkering but fires up fine now. An OK super 60. I'm gonna mount it in my ots and maybe try the fleetwind again someday if I ever build the free flight kit I have.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to move a bushing thingy
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2022, 10:12:38 PM »
Steve,

Without the advantage of holding one of these Fleetwood Mac 60's in my hand, I do not understand your comment that "...the rear rotor/drum might not be assembled correctly, thus shifting the cam."  The points are at the front of the engine, and I assume, perhaps dangerously, that the ignition cam is machined into the crankshaft. So if there actually is a timing issue, it would stem from the cam follower making contact from a different position clockwise than it was designed. Thus, any aftermarket points or ignition module would need to be positioned to get the engine back in time.

If it had only popped and burped a few times, then I'd think that the timing was completely hosed. Back in the thread a ways it seems that it ran for variously 5 seconds or 20 seconds or...? If it was continuously firing, then simple timing isn't the whole story here. At least, that's what those symptoms suggest to me.

Dave

You're right about the points being on the front! I blew it, my forgetter failed me between the top and bottom of the thread. I'm not into spark ignition engines, but did get my fingers thoroughly smashed (not bloody) while flipping a Super Cyclone with a worn-out main bearing. Hurt like the blazes. That can make the timing bounce around and work awful.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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