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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: Allen Eshleman on September 07, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
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Two separate questions about Hayes Tanks:
1. I have a Hayes tank with a leak - at the seam - I think. Is it worth it to glue it with CA or epoxy? Will it hold?
2. Is it alright to glue a Hayes tank to a piece of thin hardwood that can be adjusted up and down?
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On #1 scruff the plastic around the leak and use silicon glue or epoxy.
On #2 use the same glue or make a strap to hold the tank to the plywood. D>K
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Two separate questions about Hayes Tanks:
1. I have a Hayes tank with a leak - at the seam - I think. Is it worth it to glue it with CA or epoxy? Will it hold?
2. Is it alright to glue a Hayes tank to a piece of thin hardwood that can be adjusted up and down?
Why would you want to waste time and money to fix a $6-7 fuel tank? How much is your time and effort worth? Particularly time at the flying field. I would get a new tank, set it up properly, then rough up the surface and use silicone adhesive sealant to attach it to your adjustable plate. If you set it up as a uniflo you probably don't need adjustmaent of the entire tank height as you can loosen the stopper and rote the uniflow line to alter the height as needed.
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Two separate questions about Hayes Tanks:
1. I have a Hayes tank with a leak - at the seam - I think. Is it worth it to glue it with CA or epoxy? Will it hold?
2. Is it alright to glue a Hayes tank to a piece of thin hardwood that can be adjusted up and down?
I think you will have serious problems trying to glue to polypropylene. I would just toss it and get another one.
Brett
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I think you will have serious problems trying to glue to polypropylene. I would just toss it and get another one.
Brett
That plastic just does not accept "normal" glues like we use. I saw a video of some new stuff that is an outgrowth from the dental industry, where the "glue" is applied with a pen applicator, and then cured with an on board UV light? The reason I'm posting this is if he has a Hayes 3 ounce tank, I think they are not available any more and may be worth an experiment to fix with the light cured glue. You could force some of the glue inside the crack in the tank so when it is cured by the light, you have a boind and seal on both sides. This may come in handy some where else along the line. I agree that just tossing it may be the best course of action, but earn my living fixing thing for companies that don't want to spend any money, so it's kind of ingrained in me !! I just need to find this stuff on sale at a brick and mortar shop so I can check it out a bit before I buy it.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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I remember something from a while back about heating with a soldering gun and melting back together, I would only try that as a last ditch effort. That said, MECOA purchased the rights to Hayes and some of the tanks are available again. Like many things MECOA, the 3 oz. tank shows awaiting order, may be worth a phone call.
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I ordered a few Hayes tanks when a vendor announced they were no longer available from his distributor. I'm not likely to use them at my age, so let me check my stash when I go home again in a few days.
Hayes was one of my favorite tanks at one time.
Bill
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I remember something from a while back about heating with a soldering gun and melting back together, I would only try that as a last ditch effort. That said, MECOA purchased the rights to Hayes and some of the tanks are available again. Like many things MECOA, the 3 oz. tank shows awaiting order, may be worth a phone call.
There is such a thing as a plastic welder, which is a heat-based system where you melt a filler material into a joint with the heat gun of some sort. I think that is about the only thing that has a chance of fixing a crack in polypropylene. It works for plastic car bumper covers, so it might work for this. There apparently is some art to it, but if you can find someone who does it for bumpers, you might get them to fix the tank.
Brett
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I got some Hays 3 oz tanks from MECOA earlier this year.
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I do have another one which I have installed. I like these tanks. I can't find any more for sale. The 4 oz. tanks are available somewhere I saw. I have a couple of them. I like these 3 oz tanks for use where there is limited space. I haven't tried gluing the other one yet.
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It ain't easy....
https://www.permabond.com/resource-center/prepare-bond-polyethylene/
Dave
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I just checked the MECOA website for the Hayes 3 oz tanks and it says: "Sold Out. Stock Status: Expected May 31, 2020"
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The Permabond adhesives look interesting. However, it might be cheaper to buy another tank if I could find one. However, I have my current situation solved by taking one from another plane that is not being used - "robbing Peter to pay Paul" so to speak. I also checked Mecoa and saw the "sold out".
I have heard that some other makers may have something similar.
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I do see a somewhat similar 90cc tank at Hobbyking. However, it is not in stock. Has anyone ever tried it?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fuel-tank-90cc.html?queryID=c8af14084b9954aa4a70c87f83365aca&objectID=31336&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
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I do see a somewhat similar 90cc tank at Hobbyking. However, it is not in stock. Has anyone ever tried it?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fuel-tank-90cc.html?queryID=c8af14084b9954aa4a70c87f83365aca&objectID=31336&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
I bought three of these a couple of years ago. When I got them in hand, I just didn't like the geometry of them. I may try them someday, but I just went with a 4 ounce slant tank instead on my Skyrays.
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I have been fabricating and welding plastic for 20 years. Under the right conditions polypropylene is one of the easiest plastics to weld. A fuel tank, however, would be nearly impossible.
Plastic welding requires that all 3 pieces, the 2 that you are joining and the welding rod, reach melting point at the same time. The 2 pieces you are joining must remain still and pressure must be applied from the rod to force the resins to blend. With a tank the wall is so thin that it would collapse from its own weight about the time it gets hot enough to weld. Any pressure applied from the rod would only distort the tank or pop a hole.
Gluing polypropylene or polyethylene is a waste of time, effort, and glue.
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Three-ounce tanks are available at Value Hobby. Nothing fancy, but they do the job for a very good price.
Dave Mo...
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Have you got a link direct to the fuel tanks at Value Hobby? I found their website, and entered "fuel tanks" in their search function...got "No Results". If "fuel tanks" isn't the right term, I have no idea what different words might change it's mind! n~ Steve
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Have you got a link direct to the fuel tanks at Value Hobby? I found their website, and entered "fuel tanks" in their search function...got "No Results". If "fuel tanks" isn't the right term, I have no idea what different words might change it's mind! n~ Steve
searched on just "tank"
http://www.valuehobby.com/3oz-90cc-fuel-tank.html
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Thanks for the lead on Value Hobby. I want to try that 3 oz. tank.
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I've also like their stock of plastic spinners. I see the just refreshed their lineup. Again, nothing fancy and the price is right.
Dave Mo...
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The 3 0z tanks are too long to fit into my Shark 402's without cutting out a notch in a leading edge. I don't know when or if I will use them. It will depend on what other 25 sized power planes I might build and if I do so. I am not sure if they would fit in my old twisted Magician.
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There is such a thing as a plastic welder, which is a heat-based system where you melt a filler material into a joint with the heat gun of some sort. I think that is about the only thing that has a chance of fixing a crack in polypropylene. It works for plastic car bumper covers, so it might work for this. There apparently is some art to it, but if you can find someone who does it for bumpers, you might get them to fix the tank.
Brett
Having built fully functional tanks from Kraft and Sullivan tanks with a soldering gun its not hard, but it takes longer than you'd think to melt the plastic for joints. You need a soldering gun. If it has adjustable temperature that it helpful but not required. Use a tip that has a wide flat on it 1/4in or so. Cut a 1/4in, strip of material from a scrap tank. Wash tank and strip with solvent. Tape the strip in place, or hand hold it. Start the soldering gun heating and hold it on the strip until the tank and strip turn clear. They are melted. A little extra heat and presure and the strip will melt into the tank wall. Iron down the other end past the crack, then work in between.
It does take what seems like forever to melt the plastic but its only 5-10min at first, quicker as you extend the melt on the strip.
Since this is a rather tedious technique, somewhat like watching paint dry, I only used it on special cases.
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The length of the 3 oz "Hobby Unlimited" tank without the topper and tubes is 3 1/4 inches.
The length of the 3 oz Hayes tank including the foot is a hair under three inches. Because the nipples are already molded into the front of the tank, the length to the back end to the front of the nipples is 2 1/2 inches a half an inch shorter than the tank with its foot.
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This could be a possible alternative from Hobby King.
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https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fuel-tank-90cc.html?wrh_pdp=2?utm_source=magentotriggers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=backinstock
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BTW. I tried a 3 oz Hayes tank which had expoxy glue in its leaky places. It was leaky. As you all have said, that is not a good solution.
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Size : 63x38x48mm I just found this. It's about 2 1/2 inches long.
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Two separate questions about Hayes Tanks:
1. I have a Hayes tank with a leak - at the seam - I think. Is it worth it to glue it with CA or epoxy? Will it hold?
2. Is it alright to glue a Hayes tank to a piece of thin hardwood that can be adjusted up and down?
Allen, it's fairly simple to weld polypropylene with a regular soldering gun and an old tank to cut into pieces for welding.
Remove all parts from the tank. Make wooden plug to fit through the hole where the crack is- it appears to be around the plug for the fuel line etc.
Hold a strip of plastic up against the rim around the tank plug hole. Start warming the iron and hold it against the plastic strip. Move it around to warm the area up and bring up the temperature part way around the hole. After a few minutes of clicking the iron off and on and wiping the plastic it will start to turn clear. When it turns clear use a small amount off pressure to make sure the strip melts and sticks to the plastic where it split. Keep the area warm to stay clear and for some plastic to melt the tank layer back together.
Let it cool naturally. Twist the plug and pull it out. Trim the edges for the cork as needed. If the cork is at all stiff from age it's best to use a new one.
Reassemble the tank and test under water with some low pressure to see if there are still leaks.
I've built whole, specially fit tanks, extended tanks, shortened them, even added a chicken hopper to them. It does take some practice, and it is not super fast process. If you do have access to a Variac(adjustable voltage transformer) that makes it simpler to control the iron heat by lower voltage instead of clicking the trigger. It's easier, but they are expensive. Just make sure its rated for the current draw on the iron.
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Thanks. That sounds within my realm to do, if I buy a soldering gun. I have enough new tanks right now but this sounds like a doable cure.
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I have cut the corner off several Hayes tanks to install the bronze pickups as they would not fit through the front. This was done to help cut down on fuel foaming, JB weld back together, even using muffler pressure never had one leak. The trainer pictured has 30 or so flights on it, FWIW.