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Author Topic: Diesel Question  (Read 3188 times)

Offline Jarrett Dorough

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Diesel Question
« on: November 17, 2014, 07:26:54 PM »
Hey folks,

I have been kicking around the idea of building a control line plane for a couple of years now and I think it's about time. My father used to fly strings back in the day and he always flew diesels. I like the idea of building a diesel powered plane to learn control line flying but I have a few questions. One, I know they tune quit a bit differently than glow but are they that difficult to learn? Also I have read a fair bit about how they smell, are they really that bad? The only place I have to put this thing is inside a small condo, is this a recipe for a divorce? I am currently looking at a PAW and a Enya. I know they both have good names, anything else I should put of the list? Am I crazy, should I just stick with glow?

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 07:41:34 PM »
              They stink horribly. To sum it up, your car will stink, your clothes will stink and so will your condo. You have to drive home with the thing in a sealed trash bag so your car doesn't smell like it's going to blow up due to the ether fumes. I think they're cool, but the coolness doesn't offset the smell at least for me. Ken

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 08:00:42 PM »
What Kenneth said, it's no joke.

Not to mention the stigma that goes with being one of "those guys" that runs diesels.
-Clint-

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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 08:36:44 PM »
             They stink horribly. To sum it up, your car will stink, your clothes will stink and so will your condo. You have to drive home with the thing in a sealed trash bag so your car doesn't smell like it's going to blow up due to the ether fumes. I think they're cool, but the coolness doesn't offset the smell at least for me. Ken

Ken,

Having run diesels for a lot of years your comments are correct about the smell however, there are options.
The easiest is to use a little candle scent in the fuel but that brings another problem. Do you want yourself, car and clothes and condo to smell of wild strawberry or Grape.
Another is do not use the highly refined kerosene that is used for space heaters it isn't as good as pump kerosene.
But the biggest thing is that it is very hard to accurately time the engine run and you can easily get an over run. I always used a starter in R/C simply because I never turned the compression screw or needle valve in over 5 years on one particular model. They sound awful when started but warm up and smooth out quickly.
Not difficult to learn how to run a diesel and I was always a fan of these engines.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 08:56:13 PM »
i love diesel engines. they are quiet and economical on the fuel. the sound is amazing! if you can tune a glo engine well, then you'll have no problem learning diesel.
 now, what everyone else has stated.... don't keep them in the house!! i keep mine in a tuff shed out back. secondly, and possibly important.... the cost of diesel is high! it lasts quite a while but not if your primary plane is diesel. you can easily mix your own, but NOT in a condo...lol.
 if you really wanna try it, buy a used engine (maybe even 1/2a) and get one quart of fuel from Davis. try it first. you may not like it. but you may get hooked!

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2014, 03:29:01 AM »
             Dane, I'm with you 100%. I didn't want my post to come off as a bashing statement. I just watch them run on the bench and I've flown a few of them. They're cool but I can't take the smell. As Dennis mentioned in terms of changing the scent, a viable option but one I never tried or experienced. Dennis, I hope you saved a few diesels which we can try at the field appropriately set up in the manner you mentioned. I have a quart of fuel here. Ken

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 03:36:03 AM »
You mention PAW and Enya (both two and four stroke) as Diesel engine makers but there are many more than you realise.
Try Oliver, Parra (both with there Oliver clones and specialist combat diesels), Fora, Taipan from Australan, MP Jet if you like small engines, Norvel I think has one in their range, Rustler engines has a stack of repros available, and of course a plethora of conversion possibilities.

As to the manly smell of partially burnt hydrocarbons- how much flying do you intend to do here?
Three or four 5 minute flights on a weekend with a muffled 2.5CC engine?
Hardly divorce material.

P.S. Post this same thing over at RC Universe 'Everything Diesel' and get the other side of the coin mate.
As to over runs in stunt with a a diesel, it is legal to use a timer these days if you are serious about it or there is a tin tank design that was so threatingly effective that it was banned years ago in Australia.
It had a dam built into the back of it that only allowed a limited level flight time when the fuel ran low.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 04:14:52 AM by Chris Wilson »
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2014, 11:23:05 AM »
I've gone through maybe 30 gallons of model diesel fuel.  I used to think it had an odor but I no longer think so.  :o I've never had any unusual trouble with run times.  I like to leave the needle set because the needle on a diesel is much more sensitive in terms of fuel consumption than a glow needle. 

One story.  I was flying my Dmeco Sportwing with St G20-15 diesel at a Sig contest.  At the time I was using a black sullivan bulb for fueling.  I foolishly left the can of fuel and bulb sitting in the sun.  The fuel warmed up enough that I could not finish the OTS pattern on a tankful.  I filled the bulb, clamped it off and put it on ice. Problem solved.  My cans of diesel fuel will pop with temperature changes in my shop. 

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2014, 01:18:26 PM »
Setting the NV on a diesel is a lot different than on a glow engine. It will run fine very rich on the ground, but when you takeoff, it will quit. The sound difference between rich and perfect is pretty subtle, unlike a glow. I ran my first diesel when I was 15, and my last one at about 60. The smell is absolutely atrocious. Finding a volunteer to launch your plane will definitely be a problem!  y1 Steve
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2014, 02:34:48 PM »
It all depends on what you use as a kerosene. If you use pump diesel then sure it stinks, just as truck diesel stinks. The way to get round this is simple. I use white spirit as the fuel element of the mix, the same stuff that you get in hardware stores. Then I add about 5 % of oil lamp fuel that is citronella  perfumed! The alternative to this is to use the super refined lamp oil that is used for .... you guessed it, old fashioned oil lamps.
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Offline Bob Matiska

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2014, 02:52:26 PM »
I played with diesels when I was stationed in England and had a lot of fun with them. It really doesn't take long to get the knack of running them. I still have several PAW's, a couple of MVVS 2.5's, and a G20/15. The PAW's are usually available and not to finicky, IMO.

Check out the website of Eric Clutton, AKA Doctor Diesel:

http://www.cafes.net/doctordiesel/

Also:  http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/dieselcombat/diesel_fuel.htm  for their care and feeding.

And of course, PAW's website:  http://www.eifflaender.com/

Good luck!

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Offline Jarrett Dorough

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2014, 04:23:35 PM »
Thanks guys for all the great responses. My wife, while beautiful has a nose like a bird dog and is sensitive to most types of fuel. She hates it when I burn white gas in my camp stoves, I love it on the other hand. So it looks like for now it will either have to be glow or electric and I am not totally sold on electrics. I want the simplicity and the throw back romance of yesteryear. Having a computer on the plane seems contrary to my goal. Maybe I will pick up a nice little Enya .15? I still have not ruled out the diesel, I just may pick one up and box it until I can mess around with it. Last question, after I run one of these sticky critters, is there anything that can be done to them to make them less offensive? Wash the outside with solvent ect?

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2014, 05:53:47 PM »
They're not that offensive really (in fact I love the smell :D).  After you've run them, the residue is mostly just castor with some added aroma, and cleans up easily enough with something like Windex.

Every so often I fill the car up with diesel models and fuel and head off for the weekend. Any residual aroma in the car is gone within a day or two of getting home.

It's hard to go past a PAW if you want to start messing around with diesels (I'd suggest a ballraced .19).  The Enya .25 and .30 diesels are beautifully-made, high quality engines, but I find it harder to get the setting just right with them than I do for my various other diesels.

Offline Bill Adair

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2014, 09:15:51 PM »
I agree with Steve.

No doubt I've been preconditioned by growing up on a small farm, and have always liked the sweet aroma of Kerosene based fuels.

We had no electricity for years, so we cooked on a Kerosene stove, read by the light of Kerosene lamps, washed engine and car parts in Kerosene, and stored a drum of Kerosene in the basement. Some of the vehicles I drove were also diesel powered.

The aroma for me is just a pleasant reminder of home, and my youth (both long gone).

We live in a Condo now, so I don't paint, or run any engines at home, however I do mix and store diesel fuel in small batches in our built in garage, and have had no complaints in over ten years.

My wife never complains about my airplanes, because I wipe them down with Windex before loading them back in the car, and dispose of the dirty paper towels at the field.

If you live near a club flying field you might drop by some time to see if anyone runs diesel engines there. Chances are someone does, and you could meet then there to observe a run. Hopefully, you won't find the aroma near as objectionable as some claim.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline phil myers

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 01:40:08 PM »
In my small group of control liners (about 15 of us) I'm the only one that hasn't got a diesel powered model, tho that will change by next spring because I intend to join the gang and have one built. I've got the plans for a Warlord combat wing. And the engine? A PAW 19 combat special. I know they're messy having helped launch 'wings' many times but the smell of diesel fuel is not unpleasant

Phil

Offline rustler

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 01:25:15 PM »
Hey you guys. Get into the real world. Diesels have a wonderful heavenly aroma all of their own! y1  ;)
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 05:18:43 PM »
Hey you guys. Get into the real world. Diesels have a wonderful heavenly aroma all of their own! y1  ;)

lol! it is unique. i don't think its bad. i really love the 1/2a diesels. they are just really fun. i will do a 4 stroke diesel soon. just to say i did!

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 03:23:29 AM »
.......... anything else I should put of the list?
Cox engines now do a diesel too if the size doesn't bother you.
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Offline frank mccune

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Re: Diesel Question
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 05:37:19 PM »
      Hi:

       I have 3 Diesel powered C/L airplanes ready to fly but the problem that I face is the very high cost of fuel.  It costs me $70.00 per gallon to have Diesel fuel shipped to my house! I have a gallon of DDD fuel left and when it is gone, that will be the end of my Diesel fun.  Yes, I could home brew some Diese fuel but why bother? Glow fuel is about $18.00 per gallon! I can mix my own for much less! Thirty years ago I could get ether for free but today, it is almost impossibe to obtain other than bying John Deere starting fluid!

     Good luck with your Diesel project!

                                                                            Frank McCune



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