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Author Topic: Gas in an Alky Engine  (Read 1451 times)

Offline Motorman

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Gas in an Alky Engine
« on: March 12, 2021, 03:19:40 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 09:32:56 PM by Motorman »

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2021, 04:26:58 PM »
I just saw a NV GX40 engine that looks like a glow but it burns gas. What's the difference, does it have a higher compression ratio, special glow plug or something?

What would it take to get an LA 46 to run on gas?


Thanks,
Motorman 8)


OS has several engines that are gas but to all who view them they look exactly like the glow engine. The only thing different that I can see is the plug at about $13.00 a pop. The carb has a very small venturi for the size of the engine in this case an OS90. They take a bit of time to get them broken in and even harder to get them to start easily till they get well broken in. Use a starter in the beginning. A few of my friends use them in RC and they are typical OS quality and are smooth runners.
One word of warning is that they are incredibly cheap on gas and perhaps 2.5 ounces on an OS 90 would exceed 8 minutes.
The engines look exactly like a glow but the carb has a relatively small venturi. You would be on your own in making a venturi with the correct throat and a fine needle valve. These engines are really cheap on fuel. So far I don't see a significant difference in the  power/performance between the glow or gas. However a gas OS 90 will cost you about 400.00. Don't know about the others

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2021, 04:39:24 PM »
  Really? You ask this question, with a name like Motorman??  All you need is a spark plug and electricity! You have never seen anyone that has had trouble with their vintage ignition engine, take the spark plug out, put a glow plug in and go fly?? One of the reasons to use the shorter stroke engines like the Madewell .49 and a few others. If you are not aware, the engine will run hotter on gasoline, that is another reason why guys who run sparkers either use regular glow fuel, or lantern fuel instead of gasoline. This is Engine 101.
    All it would take to get an LA.46 to run on gasoline is something to time the spark and electricity. OS has played with a gasoline glow plug for years but you never see them so it must not work very well. There is a reason we have been doing things the same way since Arden invented the glow plug back in the mid 1940s!!
  Type at you later,
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2021, 08:23:07 PM »
Dan,
Motorman is not talking about a old ignition engine from the 40's
The modern gas engine looks like a modern 2 cycle engine and has no electronics or CDI ignition system.
Using the OS 90 it has a special plug that cost about $13.00.  To start it runs on gas and oil at a 25.1 ratio. only synthetic oil can be used and it is advisable to get the best that money can buy. You use a standard glow plug ignitor to get it running.
They require a fairly long break in and they are a pita to start when new. A starter is highly recommended
It gets incredible gas mileage and you could probably do the pattern on 2.5 oz fuel.
well close to it .
I've never seen the inside of the engine so I don't know the timing on it. since it uses gas and oil you can use just about anything to finish your model.
since it is an RC motor it has a sophisticated fuel delivery system . you would need a reasonably small venturi with probably normal plumbing. You would in effect be redesigning the motor.
down side is that it cost about $400.00 I know that Enya did one a few years ago and perhaps you can get ahold of Ken Enya and find out. His site still works.
This with proper development could probably make glow engines obsolete for good.
Motorman. The gas engines that I've seen have fairly normal compression. The engine puts out really good power. However your not going to be using a 90. Go to
Horizon Hobbies and check OS engines to see what displacements are available

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2021, 10:50:57 PM »
  Hi Dennis;
  I was well aware of all of that, as I said in my post, OS has been working on this for quite a while. And I have noticed that no one is using them anywhere in control line in any fashion. Limited market means limited production which means higher prices. If a .90 needs 10 ounces of regular glow fuel to fly for 6 minutes, and the gas powered version only needs 3 ounces, but the engine costs $400 dollars, you will need to fly it a hell of a lot to realize any kind of saving, if you ever get to that point before you wear the engine out. Because you are still using gasoline, you will still have the cooling issues, as you know gasoline has a lot higher BTU output than alcohol, but alcohol runs cooler and if you run more of it you start to approach the same power output. Especially if you have a jug of nitro handy. Glow fuel is safer to handle and have around with the way we nonchalantly carry our fuel in our flight boxes. This all is really not new, but like I said, there is a reason we have been doing things the same way ever since Arden invented the glow plug. If you really wanted to go this route, developing an easy to install and easy to adjust after market spark ignition system is a better, less expensive way to go. I remember seeing Don Hutchinson's converted to ignition Magnum .40 years ago, and it was really impressive, and not too difficult to make up. It was clearly more powerful than the best running Orwick or Super Cyclone that was there. Don really cleaned up with that combo, and it was the reason why the rule banning converted engines was put into PAMPA OTS.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Chris Wilson

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Offline roy cherry

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2021, 11:29:08 PM »
yes you can run a glow emgine on gas or petrol as i know it but you wili get only 30percent of the r p m and 50 percent more heat my initial experements  showd up it can be done so i put it on the back burner for now it is doable but it will take a few years to make it reliable  roy cherry   

Offline David Ebers

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2021, 06:41:21 AM »
Flying buddy has been flying (RC) this $125 engine for about a year.
It has been a nice running trouble free .40 size engine.

https://www.mikegoesflying.com/shop/airplane-engines/gf6-side-plane-gasoline-engine/

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2021, 01:36:44 PM »
Looks like the answer to the high price fuels we now use. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2021, 01:48:29 PM »
-Ideally, someone smart enough would control the spark unit with an active controller, like Igor's system or similar. That's of course illegal in contest use at the moment but maybe not in the future?

   How is it illegal? I thought the FAI got rid of that rule, and the AMA never had anything like that. The proposed AMA rule would still permit it.

     Brett

Offline Trostle

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2021, 05:52:37 PM »
You may be right, I haven't looked at the rulebook for a while. I'm still under impression that such closed cirquit controls are allowed only with electric power. L

I am pretty sure that the F2B rules removed the restrictions several years ago on IC engines to have some sort of active power control as allowed with electrics.  The restriction on IC engines was introduced when the F2B rules allowed electric motors and was intentionally written to restrict IC engines in favor of electrics.

Keith

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: Gas in an Alky Engine
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2021, 08:40:45 AM »
The issue I have with smaller gas engines is that they use so little fuel that the passages are miniscule and even the tiniest piece of debris can cause you major headaches. Once you get over 30cc displacement it seems a lot better but the smaller sizes that we would use for stunt require super-duper double-secret-probation filters, and anything that get's past them means a tear-down.

Second, the flow rates are so small that getting the duration of your engine run consistent would be a challenge, unlike good ol' glow where you can fly six or seven laps after the clover leaf and then do a shutoff loop and wow the spectators who haven't figured out how you do it.

YMMV,

Chuck
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