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Author Topic: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers  (Read 983 times)

Offline petermick

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RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« on: August 12, 2013, 10:16:48 AM »
I recently completed a Brodak Oriental with an inverted engine.  This is not an ARF.  When I go inverted or do any outside squares or square eights the RPM drops off to the point that I have a hard time completing the manuver.  I know the typical fix is to raise the tank.  I can't do that because it is resting on the motor mounts.  It has been suggested that I lower the engine by using aluminum shims.  It looks like I don't need to move the engine very much, probably less than 1/8 inch.  Would this create a change in the thrust line enough to create control problems.

The following are the spec for the plane:

LA 46
BYO 11-4 prop
Sig 10% Castor Fuel

Thanks

Peter Mick
AMA 9581
 



Offline Brett Buck

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 10:50:18 AM »
I recently completed a Brodak Oriental with an inverted engine.  This is not an ARF.  When I go inverted or do any outside squares or square eights the RPM drops off to the point that I have a hard time completing the manuver.  I know the typical fix is to raise the tank.  I can't do that because it is resting on the motor mounts.  It has been suggested that I lower the engine by using aluminum shims.  It looks like I don't need to move the engine very much, probably less than 1/8 inch.  Would this create a change in the thrust line enough to create control problems.

The following are the spec for the plane:

LA 46
BYO 11-4 prop
Sig 10% Castor Fuel

  Moving the engine is not going to screw up the performance. I would however suggest that you move the uniflow vent on the inside of the tank instead. Just move it in the direction you need the tank to go about 1/8". That will effectively change the fuel delivery pressure without requiring any other fiddling.

    Brett

Offline petermick

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 02:51:25 PM »
Brett the tank I am using is a 4 .5 ounce Uniflow wedge tank I presume you suggest that I un solder the beautiful tube and move it so the internal end of the tube is raised approximately 1/8 inch is that correct thanks Pete

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 03:06:04 PM »
Brett the tank I am using is a 4 .5 ounce Uniflow wedge tank I presume you suggest that I un solder the beautiful tube and move it so the internal end of the tube is raised approximately 1/8 inch is that correct thanks Pete

Yes.  That's what Brett is saying.  It's what I said, too, but either I forgot to push the "post" button or something happened to my post.

Remember that the tank will still be beautiful when you're done, it just may be in a goobered-up sort of way.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline petermick

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 11:07:26 AM »
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the response.  As an alternative what if I used a klunk tank and raised or lowered the uniflow klunk as necessary.  Wouldn't that have the same effect as you suggested without the need soldering the tank?

Peter Mick

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 11:24:07 AM »
If you use a clunk tank with a fixed uniflow then raising or lowering the uniflow would do the same thing as adjusting the tank height (you see people talking about that here).

I don't know what you'd do with a clunk on the uniflow -- you'd probably have to adjust the tank height, because the clunk would always be seeking whichever side of the tank is currently "bottom".
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 11:35:08 AM »
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the response.  As an alternative what if I used a klunk tank and raised or lowered the uniflow klunk as necessary.  Wouldn't that have the same effect as you suggested without the need soldering the tank?

Peter Mick

Hi peter

One problem with that is the plastic clunk tank , if that is what you will use, is thicker than a standard metal uniflow , thus making yet another problem for you

Randy

Offline EddyR

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 02:04:47 PM »
Peter   Yes using a plastic clunk will work if you make the uniflow a fixed tube. Do not attach it to the pickup. The problem is finding a clunk tank that will fit. Reworking a metal tank is easy. Just buy a 125 watt gun and move the tube. I use a propane torch to heat the back of the tank and flip it off with a screw driver. Unsolder the uniflow and move it. Use the iron to resolder the back onto the tank.
 I would use the aluminum shims under the motor. You should ALWAYS use aluminum shims to keep the mounts from crushing.  y1Building 101 use shims y1
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Reptoid

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 02:41:34 PM »
Peter   Yes using a plastic clunk will work if you make the uniflow a fixed tube. Do not attach it to the pickup. The problem is finding a clunk tank that will fit. Reworking a metal tank is easy. Just buy a 125 watt gun and move the tube. I use a propane torch to heat the back of the tank and flip it off with a screw driver. Unsolder the uniflow and move it. Use the iron to resolder the back onto the tank.
 I would use the aluminum shims under the motor. You should ALWAYS use aluminum shims to keep the mounts from crushing.  y1Building 101 use shims y1
Ed
I wouldn't use a torch to remove the back unless you have flushed out the tank with water. I have seen them explode. ~^ While not a huge explosion, it can be enough to cause injury. :(
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       Don
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Offline EddyR

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 03:51:19 PM »
I wouldn't use a torch to remove the back unless you have flushed out the tank with water. I have seen them explode. ~^ While not a huge explosion, it can be enough to cause injury. :(
"You said I have seen them" It must be that you your self have had them do it. I have never seen one explode. A small "puff" yes .Then I was the kid who always lit a match to the end of a empty fuel can just to see how far it would go across the parking lot. WE would add more fuel and shake the can and do it again. Every time I open a fuel tank I think of those good old days. Here is how I have done it, Tank is in vice,torch heats bottom of tank and I use a screw driver to pop off end. I am never in line with the back of the tank and I am two feet from it. I have heard that people heat the tank on the stove. Now that sounds bad. Also fuel will still burn sitting on top of water. I am all for safety so if you feel it is necessary to flush the tank with water,good. There is nothing wrong with being carefull :X :X HB~> HB~> mw~ mw~ S?P S?P >:D
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline petermick

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Re: RPMs drop in inverted flight or manuvers
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 04:07:31 PM »
Thanks for all of your suggestions. Ed,  I already us aluminum pads on the motor mounts.  What I now plan on doing re the uniflow tank is to flush a couple of times with water and remove the back end with a torch.  I'll then re-position the uniflow tube. Following that I will thoroughly dry the tank with a heat gun.

Peter Mick


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