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Author Topic: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?  (Read 1116 times)

Offline frank mccune

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From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« on: December 31, 2018, 01:42:18 PM »
         Hello all

          I noticed a small burr on the inside of a boost port.  This burr snags on the ring causing a potential very short life for the ring.  The question is how to remove this burr.  I thought that a small stone on a dremel followed by polishlng again with the dremel tool.  How about taking a very light cut with a brake cylinder hone?  Swiss needle files? Purchase a new cylinder? Find someone who has a hone and have the cylinder honed.

                                                                                                  Tia,


6.                                                           

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2018, 02:26:44 PM »
Ouch!

It would depend greatly on exactly what the "burr" looks like and how it got there. If it is entirely in the window, and has not disturbed the bore, then I would try in this order of preference: X-acto, Swiss needle file(s), slipstone, and only as a very last resort a Dremel with a stone.

On some chromed liners, there would be chrome "nuggets" left in the windows that might break off and ruin the engine when running. This might be an example of something that needed attention prior to running. I have seen this on a few GZ engines and cleaned up with the X-acto.

If the "burr" was created by a broken ring during assembly/disassembly/running, then it is likely that metal was moved into the bore. Since metal does not compress, a ding in one place guarantees a bump somewhere else. One way to try to check this is to take a gauge pin (or drill blank) and roll it around inside the bore. Roll it over the suspected area. If you can feel any rocking top to bottom then you have a problem. Even if you can't, you may still have a problem.

It would take a lot to convince me that a hone (like a 3-stone spring mounted unit) would take care of a local bump without grinding away material in places you don't want ground away. A hone is not a reshaping tool. It is a "knock down the tool marks" tool. I always worry that an abused--or just well used--hone has stones that are no longer flat. (Not really flat in two axes, but straight along the rotation axis.) Again, you would be taking off material in places that you don't really want to. Making a bore wavy while trying to remove a burr is not an improvement.

If you know someone with a Sunnen hone, who has the tooling and knows how to use it that would seem to be a good prospect. Then find out how much. Likely that custom work is more than a replacement part. The real dilemma here is attempting a rude fix, then running it to see if it all worked out, and then ruining the piston, ring, head, plug and whatever else gets pounded with shrapnel.

It would take a very deft touch with a Dremel to clean up a local spot, but would be better than attempting a hone on the cylinder in my opinion if a significant ding protrudes into the bore. Perhaps best would be an adjustable lap than you could attempt to localize to the area in question. Again, not a great bet. You have the advantage of going slow with a lap.

The old shampoo/conditioner advertisement from way back had it right:  Just Don't Do The Damage In The First Place.

I know, not very helpful after the fact.

Sorry to hear of your troubles,

Dave

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2018, 02:33:24 PM »
I'm with Dave on that. No hone. The burr will put equal pressure on the liner opposite the burr. It'll out of round the liner.
A small rat tail file, or similar jewelers file can be persuasive in such an event

Offline frank mccune

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 02:55:40 PM »
            Hi Dave and Dane,

             Thanks for the great replies.  I think that the best remedy for this problem is a new cylinder.  For 26.50, I think that is fair deal.

              Happy new year,

              Frank mccune’

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 06:45:42 PM »
Frank,

If there is no need to fully re-hone (with real hone, not brake cylinder hone, then I usually go with an ultra-fine diamond file followed by slight polishing with hardwood stick & 3 micron diamond paste. Under good microscope you can attack only the necessary area.
If you need to re-hone, a quick pass with flexhone before final honing is somehow easier.
This is how I do it with AAC. I allways mill ports through chrome so they need quite a lot hand finishing before they are perfect.
If it's not AAC, then you can usually start with usual small stones, Arkansas or Degussit.
Then good cleaning with laquer thinner & ultrasonic cleaner.
Most often more damage is caused by dremel tool and especially with dremels own burrs, they are not of very high quality. And also high quality tools can cause damage if there is no skill and routine in the process. Ideally you re-touch only the burr, not the areas around it.
I also make a (very) small bevel to edge of ring at exhaust side.

Lauri

Offline bob whitney

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 11:15:12 PM »
NO hone   is it at the top or bottom of the port ,  if on the bottom not as much care needed. grind through the bur with a fine stone on a Dremel  then one of their bullet shaped rubber polishing thing.and blend it into the rest of the port


do the same for the top of the port with more care. u don't start building until past that point so u probly wont see any diff in performance just make sure u get all the bur and clean with soap and hot water.oil and give it a try


what engine is it
rad racer

Offline frank mccune

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2019, 01:47:08 PM »
      Hi Bob

      The engine in question is a hp .40 silver star.

       What I think happened may have been that when the ring was replaced, the ring hooked on the top of a boost port.  Upon an inspection to determine why there was no compression, I noticed that the new ring had been shattered into many pieces. Also, I think that at time, a burr was raised on the on the wall of the cylinder. Now, to remove the burr.

                                                                                              Thanks for all of the relies,

                                                                                               Frank McCune

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2019, 02:37:27 PM »
Frank,

Well, if the damage came from a broken ring, and the piston and the rest were already involved, you have little to lose in giving a repair a try. I would.

A couple of further comments:  if you can't see what you are working on, it becomes infinitely harder to achieve what you are after. Lighting is key. And if your eyesight isn't great, a magnifier might help as well. Second, you need both hands for the tool if at all possible; juggling a liner while trying to hold a tool/device may not be optimal. I might change strategies with a Dremel, and try freehand holding. You may find that you try to hold the tool rigid and move the work gently up to it. Definitely a skill operation.

Again, good luck with your repairs,

Dave

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 02:45:52 PM »
I have some Dremel polishing stones. They will not remove metal in a large area but will deburr a slight imperfection without damage to the surrounding area. I have used them on chrome sleeves with care.
Jim Kraft

Online Brett Buck

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »
I hate to say anything more, I am not the engine police - but this job has gone completely off the rails.

If it were just a burr, just gently burnishing it down with a steel rod and moving ahead would be fine. But this is problem #4 or 5 with this engine, damaged liner, shattered ring, etc.

   Since parts are easily available, I would very strongly suggest just getting a new liner (which was damaged already by the channel lock removal), a new ring, and a new piston (since you have no idea whether the groove was damaged when you broke the ring for whatever reason), putting it back together carefully, and then go break it in. Don't "fix" anything along the way, just take new parts, assemble them gently, and put it back together. And then leave it alone, just run it.

    Do as you wish, of course.

    Brett

Offline frank mccune

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Re: From Removing burr from port in cylinder ?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2019, 04:32:36 PM »
     Hello All

     Thanks for all of the replies.

      A new cylinder is about 30 dollars which may be a wise choice if my provential burr removal methods fail.  I realized that I really do not need this p&c as I have an abc set up waiting the wings.

      Brett, I did no damage to the sleeve by using Channel Lock pliers to remove the sleeve.  I used no squeeze on the handles. I did not permit the jaws of the pliers to touch the cylinder.  Since then, I came up with an alternative and perhaps safer way to do this task. The next time, I will apply more heat to to case.  Bloody Hell Mate, I am aware that pliers must be kept far away from small IC engines! LOL

                                                                                          All the best for 2019,

                                                                                           Frank


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