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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: Steve Thornton on January 28, 2014, 05:00:49 PM

Title: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Steve Thornton on January 28, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
I have an old Fox 19 that I intend to put on a trainer for my son-in-law, who I hope, can get my grandsons interested in the hobby.  I haven't cleaned it yet but it turns over.  It has no head gasket so I don't know how much compression it has.  At TDC, the prop shaft rotates about 10 degrees while the piston remains stationary, so I can feel a light "snap" when I turn the prop over.  With the head removed, the cylinder liner protrudes above the cylinder about 3/32" and I don't know if that is normal.  I  don't want to give my son-in-law an engine that has a problem, so my question is this; is the engine worn out, and if not, what will it take to restore it to a dependable trainer engine, or should I just use it for a paper weight?
Thanks for your help,
Steve
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: James_Mynes on January 28, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
I haven't seen a Fox 19 in a few years, but,

A) I'm pretty sure it needs a head gasket.

B) The play you describe can be better diagnosed by pulling the backplate off and observing the crank pin in the connecting rod while turning the engine over. If you can see it shift as you wiggle the prop back and forth, it's worn. You could even measure the hole and pin if you have a caliper. Another good thing to check is the wrist pin and upper connecting rod hole for wear.

C) Liners protrude above the cylinder. the head and gasket hold them in place.

Having said all that, it might be worth just throwing a head gasket in there and see if it runs.
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Chris Wilson on January 28, 2014, 09:51:52 PM
You are probably feeling a 'light snap' because there is no continual load on the rod whenever its not running.

A lot of this will disappear upon starting - not that I am saying it will be a good thing but I have seen many engines with worn con rods that work better than they have any right to.

Just clean it up and give it a go mate.
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Brett Buck on January 28, 2014, 09:58:05 PM
You are probably feeling a 'light snap' because there is no continual load on the rod whenever its not running.

A lot of this will disappear upon starting - not that I am saying it will be a good thing but I have seen many engines with worn con rods that work better than they have any right to.

Just clean it up and give it a go mate.

   Agreed, just put a head gasket in and see how it runs. The make haste to get a second model going, bigger (like a Flite Streak or Skyray 25) with a 25LA.

     Brett
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Steve Thornton on January 28, 2014, 10:04:19 PM
Thanks gentlemen!  I did take off the backplate and that's how I knew that there was play in the con rod at TDC and the rod had a lot of movement front to back.  Now where could I get a head gasket?
Steve
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Chris Wilson on January 29, 2014, 02:13:08 PM
  Now where could I get a head gasket?
Randy Smith is the 'go to man' here.
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Steve Helmick on February 02, 2014, 05:25:51 PM
Fox has surprisingly good parts support for very old engines. If Randy doesn't have what you need, they're your next stop. Is this a 3-bolt or 4-bolt backplate .19? The 3-bolt is a sweet engine, but the 4 bolt is fine for a trainer. Probably no more than 4" pitch on either.

Since you have to get a gasket set, you may as well get a new rod, 'cause the shipping will be the same and the part$  total about as much as the shipping.  H^^ Steve
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Timothy Payne on February 26, 2014, 11:01:18 AM
I'd get a gasket, but drill a 1mm oil hole in the bigend journal of the conrod (chamfering the inside with a 4mm drill bit and wet n dry). Then simply replace the rod back to front. - I've done this on a my Thunder Tiger 25s and pretty much all of my Fox Combat engines with surprising results (you could even drill a 1mm hole in the wristpin journal if you wish!).

Just make an indentation with a centre-punch first at the dead centre of the rod end (a little offset is good as you want the fuel mist to coat the bypass side of the conrod on the compression stroke ideally).

The conrods do wear oval eventually, although from my own experience it's always tapered as the crankpin moves out of the bigend under load anywhere between about 5-15thou. The latter being on a particularly worn main bearing/crankshaft - a telltale sign of this is a 'runny nose' or unburnt fuel running out of the front of the engine between the crankcase and prop driver!

They all start doing it at some point or other......


Tim
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Brett Buck on February 26, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
I have an old Fox 19 that I intend to put on a trainer for my son-in-law, who I hope, can get my grandsons interested in the hobby.  I haven't cleaned it yet but it turns over.  It has no head gasket so I don't know how much compression it has.  At TDC, the prop shaft rotates about 10 degrees while the piston remains stationary, so I can feel a light "snap" when I turn the prop over.  With the head removed, the cylinder liner protrudes above the cylinder about 3/32" and I don't know if that is normal.  I  don't want to give my son-in-law an engine that has a problem, so my question is this; is the engine worn out, and if not, what will it take to restore it to a dependable trainer engine, or should I just use it for a paper weight?
Thanks for your help,
Steve

   That's only about .002" of slop, if I do my sums right, so it should be no problem.

   Brett
Title: Re: Fox 19 slop
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 26, 2014, 03:05:27 PM
I just want to add that maybe you are looking for a head 'gasket' that is already there.  Typical gaskets for heads are really a thin aluminum shim that is pushed into the head creating a seal.  If you see a paper thin aluminum washer in that groove in the head that IS your gasket.  To add any more is to lower compression in an already low compression engine.  Cross torque it carefully,  shoot it with some light air tool or Marvels and go fire it up with some sloppy-oily fuel.

Dave