Author Topic: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines? (Read 1601 times)

frank mccune · « **on:** September 22, 2018, 08:18:20 AM »

Hi All:

Is there a reason that I should not use a synthetic oil that is sold to be used in outboard or Lawnboy 2 cycle engines? Has anybody done this? What were the results?

Tia,

Frank McCune

RandySmith · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2018, 08:51:08 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on September 22, 2018, 08:18:20 AM

Hi All:

Is there a reason that I should not use a synthetic oil that is sold to be used in outboard or Lawnboy 2 cycle engines? Has anybody done this? What were the results?

Tia,

Frank McCune

Some of it is made to mix with Gasoline, also there is a difference in the viscosity of varying 2 stroke outboard oils, That may make a difference in how it runs and protects, there maybe other things different, I have ran a huge amount of different oils in model plane motors , testing to see many things, If you want to guinea pig your engines go for it, If you want to be safe just buy a gallon of Klotz Super techniplate and use that as a mix agent, it is already proven good

Randy

PS a tach and a laser temp meter will come in handy if you want to test more oils

frank mccune · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2018, 10:32:31 AM »

Hi Randy:

If possible, would you be kind enough to post the results of your tests.

Tia,

Frank McCune

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2018, 10:57:31 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on September 22, 2018, 10:32:31 AM

Hi Randy:

If possible, would you be kind enough to post the results of your tests.

Tia,

Frank McCune

I am just guessing here, but I think time and space may prevent Randy from posting "results," from his years of experiments, and some may have been so bad that he didn't keep record of them. The Reader's Digest version would be what he already has advised, just purchase some Klotz Techniplate and be happy. It's available at many vendors at reasonable prices, is a great oil and it works. Anything that is intended for outboard engines, motorcycles, lawnmowers and such are sometimes concentrates and that screws up figuring your ratios. Sometimes they won't mix with alcohol. My only exception to this would be for use in spark ignition engines, and would chose carefully there also. Why waist time. money and engines at this stage of the game when others have already done so and concluded that it ain't worth it?
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:57:10 AM »

I run Walmart standard 2 stroke oil in my spark ignition old time engines 3 to 1. I converted my OS 60 open rocker to ignition by making a breaker plate and using points from an early Harley Sportster. I run Walmart synthetic 2 stroke oil 16 to 1 in it. Oils are mixed with camp stove fuel which is white gas. They all run cooler and have no carbon build up with the 2 stroke oil. It is very clean running. Plugs last forever.

Not sure, but I doubt it would mix with alcohol. However I do not know that for sure. It sure works great in old spark engines though. Many hours of running without problems. I am in the process of breaking in an Anderson Spitfire that I received that had never been run. it is a time consuming process but none the less fun. Lucky my close neighbors are usually gone during the day and so can run them just out my back door. They do make noise.

There is a difference between marine oil and lawn boy or weed eater oil. Marine oil is made for water cooled engines instead of air cooled. The marine or outboard engines run much cooler than the others and so are set up closer.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2018, 04:55:47 PM »

One of my fishing buddies has some sort of alignment with Amzoil, so I spent some time looking on their website. As I recall, there was a FAC that said they didn't have an oil suitable for Nitro R/C use...in their terms. I can't imagine they would consider the market large enough to mess with.

If you happen to have access to 1/4 teaspoon quantities to see if they'll mix with alcohol (I expect the chances are good to very good that they will), I'd say go for it. But if you have to buy a pint of something just to try it and have no use for leftovers, I'd say to just buy castor oil and Klotz from SIG or Tower. You might see if there is a local Go-Kart shop and pay them a visit. We have or had one...they are not open every day of the week, but have some interesting oils, including Klotz. I don't see how they keep the doors open.

Steve

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2018, 11:02:46 AM »

Jim,
At 16:1 isn't that like 6.25% oil? Have you run any of your sparkers on alcohol/menthol and oil, what oil, what %?

Dan.
I assume the reason for the original question was to either lower cost or availability of the oil. Doing a Google search on 2 stroke oils shows lots of options for racing, chainsaws etc. These engines don't use the oil as part of the cooling system the way we do. Because of this many of the 2 stroke oil options, even the one's that mix with alcohol/menthol, aren't suitable at the mix ratio they recommend. Maybe some of the oils that mix with alcohol/menthol at our normal 25% ish range will work but not sure if there is any cost savings.

Best, DennisT

Brett Buck · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2018, 11:10:45 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on October 07, 2018, 11:02:46 AM

Jim,
At 16:1 isn't that like 6.25% oil? Have you run any of your sparkers on alcohol/menthol and oil, what oil, what %?

Dan.
I assume the reason for the original question was to either lower cost or availability of the oil. Doing a Google search on 2 stroke oils shows lots of options for racing, chainsaws etc. These engines don't use the oil as part of the cooling system the way we do. Because of this many of the 2 stroke oil options, even the one's that mix with alcohol/menthol, aren't suitable at the mix ratio they recommend. Maybe some of the oils that mix with alcohol/menthol at our normal 25% ish range will work but not sure if there is any cost savings.

George Aldrich used to make fuel, called "Magnum, that left almost no oil residue. From various cryptic statements (people always think they have deep secrets about "special oil") I think that it used some variety of 50:1 or 100:1 two-stroke oil that was compatible with alcohol. I ran it in desperation for a particular strange engine issue I had, and it ran about the same as anything else. I may still have the rest of the gallon, and may have also run it in the 20FP very early on just to see how it worked. It was OK, but no better than anything else, aside from smelling funny.

Brett

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2018, 12:10:35 PM »

The old ignition engines get 3 to 1 mix non synthetic 2 stroke oil. It runs really cool and clean. I did not know what to run in my converted OS, so I looked on Saito's web site to see what they recommended running in their ignition 4 strokes. They run 20 to 1. So I run 16 to 1 synthetic 2 stroke oil as they believe it keeps the valves cleaner. Both are off the shelf Super Tech oil. $1.30 for 8 ounces for the standard 2 stroke oil.

There is a huge savings runnng gasoline or stove fuel mixed with 2 stroke oil. I have not tried mixing it with alcohol. I have run standard Sig 3 to 1 castor 5 percent nitro in them also. It takes about twice as much alcohol as gasoilne, and carbons up engines and plugs fairly fast. Alcohol does run slighty cooler than gasoline or stove fuel.

I have tried most all kinds of fuel, from 70wt. motor oil, which is what they used originally, to what I have been using for the last 10 years.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2018, 02:16:33 PM »

George Aldrich referred to "turbine oil" in at least one email exchange we had. Laurie has also, as I recall. I'd go out on a limb and assume that it's a low viscosity synthetic, probably available in drums of about 25 gallons at minimum...but maybe 5 gallon pails. I'd guess that he knew an A&E mechanic that got him a "free sample" to try. I'd like to know more about it, but I would also not be surprised if ATF might work well, especially if you can find a clear variety. I know ATF is a very high detergent, so varnish and carbon buildup would be unlikely.

We had a local OT FF guy that was an engineer or tech for Chevron/Standard Oil. I had a boss that ran a Jr. Fuel dragster and had flown sport CL as a kid. He gave me a quart of Kendall "Nitro" oil, I believe it was 60wt or 70wt. I asked the FF guy if it would be suitable for spark engines, and he said not to run it, but didn't elaborate on why not. He's been passed away many years now, so I'm not going to ask him again.

Steve

bob whitney · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2018, 03:41:38 PM »

in the 70's I was working on and racing 250 CC flat track racing motor cycles. most were using mineral oil made for 2 cycles then someone started using Castrol caster oil that was actually a 4 stroke oil .it worked great but as we know it would carbon up .then the synthetics started coming out , every time an engine seized it was blamed on the OIL. Golden Spectro and Yamaha R were 2 of the better synthetics in use. there was a test done on about 20 of the 2 cycle oils comparing temperature and HP gain .only one or 2 were found to be a real problem, .caster oil was at the top of the pack but still with the carbon problem .it was also found that if u used more than recommend the motor would run hotter than normal . there was no major power gain found in any of the oils just pick the one u like and work with it.

working with F2C Diesel team racers with 7 cc tanks we only use 10% oil ..again Caster showed to be the best but needing to be de carboned after every 300 laps. by going 50/50 with Klotz synthetics we can do four 100 lap and the 200 lap final and not need to drastically change the compression

one last diddy, when we were using Cox TD 049's in 1/2 A speed it was found that if we used 100 % synthetic ,the ball socket in the piston would wear out in no time .by adding 2 % caster the problem went away

Author Topic: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines? (Read 1601 times)

frank mccune

Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

RandySmith

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

frank mccune

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Dan McEntee

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Jim Kraft

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Steve Helmick

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Dennis Toth

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Brett Buck

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Jim Kraft

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

Steve Helmick

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?

bob whitney

Re: Outboard Synthetic oil for out glow engines?