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Author Topic: Exhaust Exit Position  (Read 948 times)

Online Steve Dwyer

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Exhaust Exit Position
« on: June 17, 2022, 11:50:33 AM »
This may have been previously discussed, I'm too lazy to search.  Does anyone have thoughts why some of the Veco and Tornado Green heads had the exhaust exiting on the left resulting in an upward position if mounted on the outboard side of a profile? Seems the trend on most other engines were designed with a right hand exit.

Steve

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2022, 12:12:45 PM »
The exhaust pulse has very little thrust energy since it expands quickly as it leaves the engine. Exhaust position back in the day was something that some designers felt could keep dirt out of the exhaust by having it point up on profile ships.

Best,   DennisT

Online Steve Dwyer

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2022, 02:06:14 PM »
And I suspect everybody decided to get on the down exit bandwagon because everyone was burning their fingers getting to the NV?? Do you know if Fox was always down?

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2022, 03:00:07 PM »
And I suspect everybody decided to get on the down exit bandwagon because everyone was burning their fingers getting to the NV?? Do you know if Fox was always down?

    Before you get fixated on the position, keep in mind that the Torpedo engines came out when almost all models were full fuselage, and engines were just naturally mounted upright to make them easier to access. Look at all the old plans and engines are either upright for the most part or inverted on occasion. It's my guess that the engineers that designed the Torpedo may simply have wanted the exhaust pointed away from the person starting the engine. Most people are right handed, and if flying C/L models fly counter clockwise, so they are positioned on the outside of the circle to start the engine, and thus the exhaust points away. As far as I know, Torpedo/early K&B Green Heads are the most common with the left handed exhaust set up. Some Some sparkers ares et up that way but a lot of those can have the cylinder rotated to face either way. I have some Super Cyclones like that. When profile C/L models came into prominence, I would guess that is when most all of the other engine manufacturers went with the right side exhaust for obvious reason. This is all just my guess from a life time of reading old books and magazines. I doubt that there is anything anywhere written by the designers at the time. It is an interesting topic, and part of the history of the hobby.
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    Dan McEntee
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2022, 03:46:51 PM »
Dan,
Actually, there was an article on the 1947 Drone Diesel. in it they had interviewed the designer Leon Shulman and he indicated that the preferred mounting for the Drone was sideway. He also said they set the exhaust so it would point up to avoid dirt getting into the engine on hand launched profile ships. The first version of the Drone you could swing the cylinder/piston to face either way. On the BB model it was fixed to the right (looking at the engine from the front, like the K&B's).

Best,   DennisT

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2022, 06:59:28 PM »
  That was probably the Adrian Duncan review of the engine? That sounds like an answer that was just pulled out of thin air!! I've flown my share of models with no landing gear and when either landing on dirt ball fields or grass, there is as much stuff ends up on top of the airplane and there is on the bottom and you still probably have the fuselage bottom to keep it actually out of the dirt. With the exhaust pointing up, what gets in there, stays in there!  With it pointing down, what goes up must come down!! A slightly better change of not getting anything in the engine. Either way, it's gonna happen. Now, with that having been said, if they would have mentioned that this position was used to keep fuel and oil in the cylinder to help with compression and cold starting, I would have found that to be more likely. That would be more practical for a diesel, but doesn't explain why the Green Heads and Torpedoes were like that. Like I mentioned before, there were a lot of sparkers that had left handed exhausts, or they were side ports or has slits around the cylinder. And most of those were aimed at free flight use. I looked a little bit but didn't find any other contemporary engines with left hand exhausts. Another old modeling mystery!
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   Dan McEntee
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Online Steve Dwyer

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2022, 08:49:09 PM »
All good points on what early rationale may have gone into the side for the exhaust port. You do have to ask how much criticism the left handed exhaust engines received when used in the upright full bodied position for control line with the fuel pick up was on the outside and the hot exhaust port was adjacent to the needle valve and fingers were burned. Usually it simply comes down to designers choice; a clear definition will remain forever a mystery.
Steve

Offline Motorman

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2022, 09:22:55 PM »
Made the mold backwards and didn't want to admit it.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 09:40:29 AM »
i was told that Bill Wisneski at K&B when building the 61 series engines with the front and back removeable found that a few extra RPM were found with the right side exhaust .he figured that the side thrust on the up stroke had more drag on the exhaust port than the smaller intake port. RAD
rad racer

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Exhaust Exit Position
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2022, 03:36:36 PM »
I'd wager that most buyers of K&B Series '61 > '67 (?) engines reversed the case. I sure did, but that was pretty much before any decent tachometers were available at reasonable prices. They'd still haul azz until they broke, which was often.  y1 Steve
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