Author Topic: Evolution 36 Control Line Engine (Read 57917 times)

Steve Dwyer · « **on:** May 08, 2015, 08:12:16 PM »

I purchased a new Evolution 36 about 2 months ago and finally had a chance to attempt to bench run it. I installed a 10x6 prop and tried to start it using 10% nitro synthetic fuel, the first thing I noticed was what seemed to be a stiffness or squeak when pulling the prop through a revolution. Also I noticed a flat spot where the prop rotates and a clicking can be heard, the same occurs with and without the glow plug so it's not from the piston hitting the plug. It started only one time, a short burst and nothing else. I have the large muffle on.

I read somewhere this motor can have this stiffness when new. Should I send it back to Horizon? Any similar experiences?

Steve

Dick Pacini · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2015, 09:17:26 PM »

It may be like the Brodak 40 with a deliberate pinch at TDC. Don't prop it over slowly or it might be damaged. Flip it briskly and get it running ASAP. The pinch will subside as it warms up.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2015, 10:10:43 PM »

Quote from: steve dwyer on May 08, 2015, 08:12:16 PM

I purchased a new Evolution 36 about 2 months ago and finally had a chance to attempt to bench run it. I installed a 10x6 prop and tried to start it using 10% nitro synthetic fuel, the first thing I noticed was what seemed to be a stiffness or squeak when pulling the prop through a revolution. Also I noticed a flat spot where the prop rotates and a clicking can be heard, the same occurs with and without the glow plug so it's not from the piston hitting the plug. It started only one time, a short burst and nothing else. I have the large muffle on.

I read somewhere this motor can have this stiffness when new. Should I send it back to Horizon? Any similar experiences?

   That's completely normal, it's supposed to have a "pinch" at TDC. Worry when it goes away.

   Be very careful turning it over with the plug out. If you leave at a TDC, there is some chance that it will stick there. If it does, heat the head end of the engine with a heat gun. Don't hammer on the prop to get it broken loose.

   It does that because the liner is brass, and it expands when hot. It gets hotter at the top of the cylinder, so it has a taper in the liner that is intentionally tighter. When it's running, the top expands more than the bottom and it fits correctly. When cold, you are just jamming the piston into a very tight taper.

   DO NOT run in blubbery rich with a 10-6 to break it in. Put on a 10-4 APC or similar, start it, and set it for a rich 2-stroke. Running cool is probably harder on it than running it hot.

   I only ever ran my EVO 36 on the bench but people tell me the venturis are much too large, even the smallest. Follow the directions on fuel, too - part of the fuel draw issue seems to be using 50s=style "Stunt Fuel" which is much thicker than modern RC fuel. I think it says to use Cool Power, I wouldn't be inclined to argue.

   Brett

David Ruff · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2015, 02:16:48 AM »

I started bench break in on mine with an 11-5 prop and 10-22 fuel. I removed the remote NVA and am using an OS RC NVA in the front venturi. Works great so far. After about 6 oz of fuel it runs a nice 4 cycle but ends up running into 2 cycle near the end of tank. This only has about 8 oz thru it now. Will continue to break in on the bench.
Randy Smith told me to get the OS RC NVA and it is working well.

Here is data on the OS NVA

They are the 2a OR 3a RC needle assemblies, they just screw into the small EVO venturi

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2015, 06:08:28 AM »

I own 3 these engines. Run it on the bench a couple times and then fly it. I've run 2 oil contents... 18 and 22 ... runs great on either.

My recommendation.... use an A3 plug. Zinger or BYO-wide 11x4. Get rid of the RNV asap. Use the OS needle or ST needle in the medium venturi .... either needle equally good. I get better performance with the large muffler. Needle it to a fast 2 stroke and enjoy.

This is a great engine ... and don't worry about the pinching. All of mine need alot of prime to start.

If you find yourself not using the engine, contact me .... I'll take it.

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:27:13 AM »

Thanks guys it all makes good sense, followed your recommendations and the engine is flipping thru perfectly. Heard nothing but good input on this engine and when mine arrives it appeared to have a problem, it was disappointing to say the least. Now installing it on my completely restored (50s vintage) Super Clown, good bye old FOX 35 and all your quirks!

Brett Buck · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2015, 10:53:27 AM »

Quote from: steve dwyer on May 09, 2015, 09:27:13 AM

Thanks guys it all makes good sense, followed your recommendations and the engine is flipping thru perfectly. Heard nothing but good input on this engine and when mine arrives it appeared to have a problem, it was disappointing to say the least. Now installing it on my completely restored (50s vintage) Super Clown, good bye old FOX 35 and all your quirks!

Oh my! A Super Clown? That's going to be rather sprightly. Forget 10-6s, that's for sure!

Brett

Dane Martin · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2015, 04:04:29 PM »

I gotta second Brett on this. That .36 is something i would fly .40 sized planes with. Its not like the old .35s. I had a few, and they are awesome engines. I even donated a new one as a beginner raffle prize at the nats. Any way, it's a lot of power!

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2015, 05:18:55 PM »

I thought my Super Clown was overpowered(OS 25FSR).
Steve

ray copeland · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:50:20 PM »

I love my EVO 36's , great engines with a lot of power, they do require some break in. Putting one on a Super Clown is a little (actually a lot of ) overkill. Super Clown is more of a 20 fp, 25 la or 25fp type of plane.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2015, 05:50:32 AM »

Agreed...... Evolution is a very powerful engine. 2 of them are currently used, a P-40 Flying Tiger and a 38 Special. Super Clown is alittle ambitious

David Ruff · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2015, 01:01:14 PM »

That is a 36 that can do the work of a 40 or a 45. See videos and link

http://sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGCL26ARF.html

Chris Wilson · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2015, 01:37:42 AM »

Quote from: David Ruff on May 10, 2015, 01:01:14 PM

That is a 36 that can do the work of a 40 or a 45.

Not even sure what that even means any more?

If you are comparing like with like, as in modern vs modern it makes no sense as a larger engine can always do more work than a smaller one but if you want to compare say a 40 year old Enya 4001 45 to a new EVO 36 then it turns into an apple vs an orange debate and it still really makes no sense.

I am assuming that its just a term for 'powerful.'

David Ruff · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2015, 02:41:10 AM »

Quote from: Chris Wilson on May 11, 2015, 01:37:42 AM

Not even sure what that even means any more?

If you are comparing like with like, as in modern vs modern it makes no sense as a larger engine can always do more work than a smaller one but if you want to compare say a 40 year old Enya 4001 45 to a new EVO 36 then it turns into an apple vs an orange debate and it still really makes no sense.

I am assuming that its just a term for 'powerful.'

good point. Yes, that it generates lots of power. Swings an 11 inch prop with authority.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2015, 04:51:58 PM »

From the sound of the video it seems like it is set for a 4-2-4 but once it gets into the loops it hits and stays until level again. It seem it wants to run faster, maybe better to run this in a wet 2 with a low pitch prop and a little smaller venturi to get the lap time you want.

I start off with a little smaller diameter (~1/2" smaller) then normal with a historical pitch, then set the needle where it likes to run and gives a consistent run, then adjust the prop diameter to get to the rpm we need for a reasonable flight speed, then trim the lap time with the pitch tweaks.

Best, DennisT

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:45:27 PM »

I remember reading about that fellow and his Evo 36 testing .... I can't find the article, but he spent alot of time and mods to get it to run a 4-2-4. Stock Evo's run best in a fast 2 .... and fall flat on their face in a 4.

There is alittle information in the description of the YouTube video posted, but I remember an article about it.

From the video posted above:

"Modifications: 0.160" dia. true venturi with sprinkler; decompressed with 0.034" head shims; Merlin 2011 plug; 11x4 Tornado prop; 10-22 fuel. It probably could use a small tank adjustment to equalize the run. The engine is mounted side-winder on an ARF Primary Force. I need to do further testing with props, compression and mounted in a full-fuse airplane"

Published on Aug 20, 2014, on another YouTube Video:

I have been working with the Evolution .36 C/L engine on and off for about 4 years, with limited success, but just enough to encourage me to swap a ST34 for a 2nd Evolution. I had tried my own venturis, various prop loads, fuel mixtures, decompression and glow plugs with some occasional success, only to find the engine to be inconsistent.

This Summer I finally decided to check the cylinder port timings and I discovered that the exhaust duration is 150 degrees and the intake ports timed for 30 degree blow-down (total difference between intake and exhaust). The data I collected from researching stunt engine tests in Stunt News and other sources revealed that typical cylinder timings for stunt engines generally vary from 130 to 140 degrees exhaust and approximately 15 degrees blow-down. I'm stuck with the crankshaft timing as I cannot change it anyway.

Using trigonometry, I determined the distance I had to drop the cylinder to obtain the desired exhaust timing (I did one at 134 and one at 140 degrees); and the amount I had to cut at the top of the intake ports. The photos illustrate the machining work involved.
Dropping the cylinder dramatically increased the compression. I was forced to open up the head and also add head shims. I initially decompressed the engines too much and ended up removing a couple shims to restore power.

#1 engine is used in the video. #2 seems to have similar power characteristics. I am currently using a .185" diameter true venturi with a small jet tube. Fuel is 10% nitro, 24% oil (half castor). Prop is a Master Airscrew 10x5, 3-blade prop that measures 3.5 pitch. Ignition is provided by a Merlin 2005 plug. Launch rpm is around 11,000 in a 2-stroke. The engine settles to a fast 4-stroke within 1 lap. It breaks during manuevers, but doesn't accelerate. Fuel consumption is approximately 3 3/4 oz. for 6 1/2 minutes (a pattern takes about 5 1/2 mins.).

Tim Redelman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2015, 06:03:37 PM »

This help?

Matt Piatkowski · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2015, 08:06:10 AM »

Hello,
Please see the attachment and kindly prioritize in order of importance.

Comment: attachment has two parts - this is PART 1. PART 2 is in my next reply.
Thank you,
Matt

Matt Piatkowski · « **Reply #18 on:** June 08, 2015, 08:07:39 AM »

Attachment PART 2 is here.

fred krueger · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2015, 04:32:18 PM »

Here's the latest in the series of videos on my Evolution .36 engines. If you have viewed previous videos in this series, you are aware of the various modifications attempted to obtain the run I desired. One of the re-timed Evos is mounted on my new profile and is swinging a 10.5 x 4.5 APC prop. This combination results in an almost solid 4-stroke run with just a hint of break at the top of maneuvers.

David Ruff · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:19:23 PM »

Hi Fred.

What fuel are you using?

David Ruff · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2018, 12:39:06 PM »

Break in using 10/22

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2018, 06:30:45 AM »

I thought I had read the Evo36 was stunt timed and developed in conjunction with the Adimisins?

??

So if not suitably timed would there be enough interest in me doing a production run for these with appropriate timing?

ray copeland · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2018, 06:57:32 AM »

Brian, I am in for at least one.

fred krueger · « **Reply #24 on:** April 30, 2018, 06:52:42 PM »

Brett Buck · « **Reply #25 on:** April 30, 2018, 10:42:00 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on April 17, 2018, 06:30:45 AM

I thought I had read the Evo36 was stunt timed and developed in conjunction with the Adimisins???

So if not suitably timed would there be enough interest in me doing a production run for these with appropriate timing?

The timing for an RC pattern engine and a CL Stunt engine (circa 2018) are about the same. What would you propose changing about it?

Brett

Chris Brainard · « **Reply #26 on:** April 30, 2018, 11:36:51 PM »

At last count, I now have eight of these, bought new in the box at bargain basement prices of about $50.00 each. I love the way they run, but when I first started using them was extremely frustrated with the run quality. It was all over the place. I tried extra head gaskets, different venturies, hemi heads, uniflow, atmospheric vented tanks, muffler pressure, tongue mufflers, standard mufflers, custom lightweight mufflers, high pitch props, low pitch props and stuff in between. Some of these worked...kind of...for a while and then it was back to running inconsistently. Finally, ready to give up, I read the manual...again, only this time I followed the directions....and used Cool Power all synthetic with low oil content. The difference was like night and day. The runs immediately became consistent and I could now start dialing it in. Internally, I run the engines dead stock. No extra head gaskets, no dremel work. The only modifications I make are 1) install conventional Venturi/spray bar assembly through case. Venturi bore is .272 with .156" diameter spraybar (Jim Lee sells a true Venturi for this with the same choke area and it works great if you aren't comfortable drilling a hole through the case for a spraybar) and 2) machine the outside of the head round and sand off the fins on the back of the case to match. It saves a little weight and in my opinion looks better (not having so many of those goofy fins). At our field in the foothills west of Denver (6000 ft. elevation) I usually run Xoar 11 X 4 and APC 11 1/2 X 4. When I go to Tucson, I switch to an APC 12 1/4 (cut down to 11 1/2) X 3 3/4. I run Cool Power 10%. Launch between 10,000 - 10,200 rpm. My engines have well over 300 flights and are easy starters with great compression. Frankly, with all the bad mouthing regarding these engines I've been fortunate to get some really good deals on them. It's to bad production was discontinued on them. In my opinion, Horizon Hobby screwed up by marketing them as an introductory type engine with the rear needle valve assembly and crummy venturis. I think they would have been more widely accepted with a good Venturi/needle valve assembly.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #27 on:** May 01, 2018, 10:33:54 AM »

Quote from: Chris Brainard on April 30, 2018, 11:36:51 PM

Finally, ready to give up, I read the manual...again, only this time I followed the directions....and used Cool Power all synthetic with low oil content. The difference was like night and day. The runs immediately became consistent and I could now start dialing it in. Internally, I run the engines dead stock. No extra head gaskets, no dremel work.

The reason is clear. There are two things that affect the ability to draw fuel - how much suction it has, and *how hard the fuel is to pull out of the supply lines*. Everybody has obsessed for years about the former, the latter is just as important. Going to a fuel with very low viscosity makes it very much easier to draw, so now the "grossly excessive" venturi actually works.

Brett

Chris Brainard · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2018, 05:40:02 PM »

Fuel draw really wasn't an issue with the smallest factory venturi. One of the first modifications I made was to machine a new venturi (.260 to start) and drill the case for a ST type needle valve assembly (.156). It pretty much ran the same other than being easier to start with the conventional setup. I think the problem was related to too much compression due to the additional oil. Adding a bunch of gaskets made the engine run consistently (weak), but the effect of moving the glow plug further away from the piston at TDC created other problems (basically a one speed run with no break). Increasing the volume of the head (slight hemi) by narrowing the squish band .030" allowed the removal of the additional head gaskets and gained some power back, but it never ran as good as it did stock with the right fuel.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2018, 07:36:05 PM »

I had mine out this past weekend, I really like it. I have the Jim Lee setup with the sprinkler venturi. He also offers the conventional through the venturi setup which I also own. Horizon Hobby was told on several occasions about the venturi issues/remote needle valve setups. They were also sent pictures in regards to the setups like Jim produces. They would say they were going to make changes and as usual ignored the user. Sadly it is discontinued. I have the .60 and I really like using that engine equally.

Chris Brainard · « **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2018, 09:33:21 PM »

I have the .60 too and agree that it runs very well. They quit production on them before I had a chance to get a second one.

RandySmith · « **Reply #31 on:** May 03, 2018, 11:51:06 AM »

Quote from: Chris Brainard on May 01, 2018, 09:33:21 PM

I have the .60 too and agree that it runs very well. They quit production on them before I had a chance to get a second one.

Chris if you are talking about the 36 I have them in stock

Randy

Manuel Cortes · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2018, 10:32:36 AM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on April 17, 2018, 06:30:45 AM

I thought I had read the Evo36 was stunt timed and developed in conjunction with the Adimisins???

So if not suitably timed would there be enough interest in me doing a production run for these with appropriate timing?

Hi Brian and all.

If finally there is enough interest I will be interested in two sets.

Kind regards.

Manuel.