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Author Topic: Fox 35  (Read 2270 times)

Offline ray copeland

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Fox 35
« on: March 02, 2008, 05:44:55 PM »
I have what appears to be an old "new" Fox 35 motor. Great compression and very clean. Tried to run on a test stand today. Just finished running an OS25 on the same tank and hoses. The fox will only run on prime, fires right up on prime and absolutely will not draw fuel. Put my finger over the venturi and flip 3 times draws fuel good and fires right up for 3 seconds . Needle valve assembly removed and super cleaned, no change. Changed to new fuel hose, nothing. Spraybar has hole straight through both sides and i have it pointing in the middle of the venturi. Needle valve adjustments do nothing. Needle has a flat place on one side . I feel like i should choke down the venturi. Really stumped! Thought maybe this would strike up a memory of something similar for someone.  Thanks,  Ray
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Bill Adair

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 06:26:46 PM »
Ray,

Could it be a back cover air leak?

An air leak in the case, can produce some strange symptoms.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline ray copeland

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 06:44:59 PM »
Bill, i did not think of that, i have a gasket set and will try that the next warm day . Will let you know, Thanks, Ray
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 06:57:05 PM »
The holes in the spraybar are not exactly on centerline...they have to be below center, not above center. Could be the leaky backplate, but if it isn't...and checking this won't cost you that gasket set.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 08:07:20 PM »
One of my buddies recently brought a few old engines by for running on my test stand.  Couple of McCoy's and Enya's---strange problem with them.........
The McCoy would only run at about half speed and would run backwards better than forwards.  The others had weird behavior too.

On a whim, I asked about age of the glow plugs-------all many years old.  Old plugs glowed OK but didn't look really good. 

New plugs fixed everything.  Learn as we go,.......... sometimes.

Cheers,
Jim
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 08:43:47 PM »
Sounds like you have the old style Fox NVA.  I was never able to get them to run consistently and switched to ST NVA's early on.  On the McCoy mentioned, check to see that the cylinder is in right.  Friend had one with the cylinder reversed and it ran kind of like described. 

Offline ray copeland

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 08:48:00 PM »
I am a novice with this engine. I assume you are talking about a nva for a super tiger engine. Can these still be found?
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 09:28:49 PM »
Randy Smith can provide a Precision Aero NV assy. that's made specifically for Fox .35 Stunts. I'd suggest that you contact Randy. His NV Assy's. are absolutely the finest you can get...you'll like them a lot.

That's a good point about old glowplugs, too. I don't know why, corrosion or carbon buildup from congealed oil, or whatever...but I've had the same experience.

Also, with used engines, you never know...some folks tend to put the cylinder in backwards, or the piston and head. None of the above help anything. The bypass ports always close before the exhaust (piston rising), the baffle is always on the bypass side, and the head has to match (duh!).   D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Bill Mohrbacher

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2008, 06:05:31 AM »
You say you have the spraybar hole pointing in the middle of the venturi.  This sounds like you can see the hole.  The holes must NOT point up and down in the venturi.  You need to turn the spraybar 90 degrees so you can not see either hole (so they are perpendicular to the venturi).  Ultimately you may want to buy a NVA to get more consistent setups, but millions of stunt 35s have been successfully started and flown with the one that comes from the factory!

Offline Richard Edwards

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2008, 06:24:57 AM »
The spraybar change is definately a good thing to do I have always changed them for either OS or Super Tigre assemblies, infact I have a pair of L&J reworked Fox35's and the needle and spraybar assemblies were replaced with Super Tigre ones by Larry when he reworked them, also you might want to check that there is no leaks arounf the head gasket or glowplug. As far as the backplate leaking being as the gasket is cork unless someone has taken the back plate of or the screws are loose I don't see it leaking, but I guess it could be, you also might want to make sure you are using new fuel as I had a similar problem one time at the British Nationals with moisture getting in my fuel, engine would start on a prime but would not keep running, bought some new fuel and fixed the problem, the fact you had just been running another engine I am presuming you used the same fuel so that may have not been the problem, don't forget Fox 35's should bew run on a high caster content fuel or they will just either cook or wear out very fast unlike OS engines which use less caster.
 Just my two cents
 Richard

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 10:35:14 AM »
HI Ray

If you change out the NVAs remember you cannot install a NVA with a larger diameter and not affect performance and the 2-4 break, The ST spray bar for example is much thicker than the FOX one. You will either need to drill out the hole in the FOX 35 case, or file, or turndown the new spray bar ..the ST is .157 diameter the FOX ones goes about .129
This will effectively reduce your venturie area near .030 inch.

Regards
Randy

Offline Leester

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 12:11:38 PM »
Ray: Is your Fox the 40th aniv. model ? long needle with the spade tip ?
Are you getting fuel in the venturi ? I have a 40th aniv. model and before I put Randy's NVA in it I had to turn out the factory needle approx. 13 turns before it would run on it's own.
Leester
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Offline Marvin Denny

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 01:23:02 PM »
  Assuming that you found the Backplate gasket ok,and it still won't draw fuel, it sounds like you are drawing air around the spraybar at the ends (especially the needle end) and/or around the needle threads and spraybar.
  Seal around each end of the spraybar at the point it goes into the case with silicone sealant.  also turn the needle  out about eight turns and measure the distance between the first ratchet knob and the end of the spraybar.  cut a piece of fuel line tubing slightly longer than that space and then remove the needle and put the short piece of tubing over the threads of the needle and screw it back in until the tubing contacts the end of the spraybar and is also butted up against the ratchet knob.  (this is to seal air leakage from around the threads into the intake)  Try running it now.
  The best way to correct those two possibilities is to buy one of Randy Smith's NVAs for the Fox stunt 35. but  the stated way will tell you if that is the problem.

   Bigiron
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Offline ray copeland

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008, 05:43:31 PM »
Finally Yes!! After 2 more hours this evening, something just happened. Changed backplate gasket , adjusted spraybar position . Nothing,  finally she started and ran really lean with needle all but falling out. Let her cool down, and for the next 20 minutes of flippin, just fired on prime. All of a sudden she took off on a super rich run and i knew it was good! Don't know the answer unless something was gummed up internally. Engine appeared to be ran maybe once before and was a little gummed up inside. This is the standard old bushed Fox 35 engine with no gimmicks. After that, i ran about 6 oz of fuel through it and ran great, back and forth from 4 to 2 and back easily. I don't like the amount of crank play, maybe that is normal for this engine. Randy, i do want to order a better needle assembly for this, no problem with the drilling part, if you would let me know what to order and any other small fix up parts. Thanks to everyone for their help. I do love the sound of this engine!!    Ray
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2008, 06:36:41 PM »
As Randy said, installing a ST NVA does restrict the intake of a Fox stunt 35.  I had intended to hog out the intake to compensate, but after several people, at contests long years ago, asked me if my cowled in engine was an ST 46, I just never got around to it.   H^^

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Fox 35
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 08:25:46 AM »
Hi Ray,

Randy's Fox NVA needs no modifications to use.  It is the same size as the stock Fox and is turned down in the center.  It also had a nylon (or something) packing in the clamping nut which makes air leaks impossible, and locks the needle better than the ST ones..
Big Bear <><

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Trying to get by


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