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Author Topic: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???  (Read 1482 times)

Offline frank mccune

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Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« on: October 19, 2013, 02:01:41 PM »
    Hi All:

    I was in the shop converting some metal tanks to uniflow when I had an idea.  Why not have all of the tubes placed in the front of the tank? All of my tanks have the pickup at the rearmost corner of the tank with one being 5" from the front of the tank. Add a couple of more inches of travel to the nva and one has a long path for the fuel to travel!

   I thought that if I place the pickup in the front of the tank, this would make the fuel travel much less. Of course I would kick the front corner of te tank outboard or make the tank wider at the front than the back to get the fuel to drain to the front.  The uniflow vent could also be in the fron! I have seen tanks setup for racing with the tubes in the front of the tank.  Would this be a good idea for a stunt tank?

                                                                                              Frank

Offline Valentin Apostolov

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2013, 02:53:59 PM »
Sorry NO. It is not a good idea!


Valentin Apostolov

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2013, 03:10:58 PM »
Yes, and you can buy them that way. The Uniflow inlet and overflow are then remotely mounted and hooked up with a bit of fuel hose. This works just fine, but you do want the remote Uniflow tube to be above the top of the tank.

Sometimes there is a question about which tube is which, but otherwise, it's a good plan if you want to slide the tank in/out through the engine bay. If you like to remove your engine to shim the tank up/down to adjust engine run during insides/outsides.  

Kinda depends on how much your engine of choice vibrates. If you have a smooth running engine, dropping the tank out the bottom (top if an upright engine) is less hassle, but the remote exterior tubes are still a good thing. Different strokes.  H^^ Steve  
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2013, 03:58:45 PM »
I think Frank's talking about actually having the internal plumbing at the front of the tank, not just where the pipes exit it as per an 'ATF'-style tank. I wouldn't be keen myself. With much less than a full tank, I could imagine things going quiet at a fairly inconvenient time.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2013, 07:48:49 PM »
      Hi Steve et. al.:

      Yes, I am thinking of having the plumbing on the inside of the tank near the front wall.  What would be different than having the plumbing near the bck wall, rear of tank? We have seen tanks set up for racing set up this way for years.

      I remember that years ago I read that the reason our stunt planes go ito a 4-2-4 mode was that the engine leaned out as it tried to pull the fuel vertically from the tank.  It was also suggested that if one was not getting a good 4-2-4 break, he should move the tank back farther from the engine to make the engine become more lean as it went into a vertical position.

     

                                                                                  Be well,

                                                                                  Frank

                                                                       

       

   

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2013, 10:34:31 PM »
Oh. No, Frank, that won't work worth a darn. But you can certainly try it and find out for yourself. Just be sure that you can easily remove the tank and put in one with the fuel pickup in the rear.

Apparently, I was not paying full attention while reading your OP. My apologies to all.  HB~> Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2013, 10:41:20 PM »
 
      Yes, I am thinking of having the plumbing on the inside of the tank near the front wall.  What would be different than having the plumbing near the bck wall, rear of tank? We have seen tanks set up for racing set up this way for years.
              
                                                    

Hi Frank,

To my mind, the thing with racers is that they don't pull up into vertical climbs!  I'm thinking about where you've got considerably less than a full tank and establish a vertical climb - even with centrifugal force still pushing fuel to the outside edge, you may still find your engine sucking air suddenly.  Sure it'll run a little while due to the fuel already in the line, but that might be just enough to get you overhead for the start of the o'head 8s....

Steve

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 07:51:49 AM »
      Hi Guys:

     Thanks for the replies!

     I should have known better via common sense.  The meds that I am taking really cloud my judgement! I told the wife that she has to make all of the decesions while I am on these meds! Lol The Dr. said that I will be on them for another two years! Lol

    In any case please bear with me if I ask stupid questions. Lol 

                                                                                       Stay well my friends.

                                                                                        Frank

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 03:25:47 PM »
Frank, there are no stupid questions.  ;) H^^

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2013, 07:50:06 PM »
   Of course I would kick the front corner of te tank outboard or make the tank wider at the front than the back to get the fuel to drain to the front. 

I think that the above reasoning would make it work but with the modification that the rear of the tank be canted inwards instead of the front of the tank outwards (this leaves the pickup on a more reasonable line) - but as with all front feed tanks width becomes an issue and placing the fuel pick up too far outboard leaves centrifugal force playing havoc between launch and flight speeds.

Some combat models do well with front feed tanks.

Good luck.
MAAA AUS 73427

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 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline GregArdill

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 03:20:08 AM »
Front feed tanks work perfectly well for vintage combat models, so there is really no reason why it can't be made to work for stunt models.

The combat environment is more demanding than aerobatics.

The ones I've seen are for use by 15 - 19 size diesels on suction. So there is no muffler pressure to "help" out. From memory the front outside corner was constructed at about 75degrees. Fuel pick up was located in the centre and the uniflow about the centre of the tank. A small baffle about 1/2 to 3/4" out took care of the more violent maneuvers.

Drawing attached

Greg

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Fuel tank with all tubes in the front of the tank???
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2013, 06:54:45 PM »
Frank,
It will work but you need to have a pretty good angle on the outside face making the front of the tank wide and the back narrow similar to the tank the Greg posted. Back in the day flat face sides on all tanks worked it just has to be big enough to get the last maneuver before the inlet starts to pickup some air. You could do a reverse wedge that would be rectangular in the narrow rear the do the wedge in front. Keep the pickup about 1/8" ish from the front and put the uniflow 1/8" behind it.

Since the engine will have less piping loss you might open the venturi a bit to get the break right.

Best,      DennisT


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