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Author Topic: T&L ST G51  (Read 4032 times)

Online Crist Rigotti

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T&L ST G51
« on: May 25, 2007, 02:49:32 PM »
Here are a few pics.
Crist
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Bill Little

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 09:05:04 PM »
Hey Crist!  It looks just like mine! ;D

On my SV 11 I used a Rev Up surplus 12-5 with the tips shaped and phillips entry.  On my USA-1 I used a Eather 12-4 3/4 cut to about 11 3/4, three blade.

Gonna start running my other new one soon.

BTW: I used Sig 25% all castor in mine as Tom suggested.  Never got it to run quite the same when I tried the Sig 1/2 and 1/2 oil. (???)

AWESOME ENGINE!

Bill <><

Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

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Trying to get by

Offline Leester

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2007, 06:53:32 PM »
Nice lookin engine Crist. What ya got planned for that ?
Leester
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Offline Ken Deboy

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2007, 07:23:57 PM »
What are the advantages of moving the NVA down into the crank case? I have one of these I want to send to Mr. Lay for rework but I'd prefer to not have the case drilled.

cheers,
Ken
There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2007, 08:08:46 PM »
A profile!

Moving the NVA down on the engine keeps the tank in a good position.  Otherwise it would be very low in the tank compartment on inverted engine, and very high in upright engine installations.
Crist
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2007, 11:58:20 PM »
Another way, needle installed in existing hole.
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2007, 02:57:51 PM »
A profile!

Moving the NVA down on the engine keeps the tank in a good position.  Otherwise it would be very low in the tank compartment on inverted engine, and very high in upright engine installations.

Hi Crist

Not really true. it only matters where the fuel goes out in the air  not  where the needle is, In a true venturie instead of a restrictor, the fuel enters the atmosphere lower than where the needle is, so there is almost  zero differance as far as  where the tank is located. but you do loose the advantages of the true venturie and also you will have the disadvantage of having another hole drilled in the case , and you will have to make sure you completly seal the open holes that you leave when you drill the case.

Regards
Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2007, 05:22:17 PM »
""""BTW: I used Sig 25% all castor in mine as Tom suggested.  Never got it to run quite the same when I tried the Sig 1/2 and 1/2 oil. ()"""

Hi Bill
The G51 is a steel sleeve ringed motor  it needs as I have stated many times 23 to 24 % oil content, they run very well on 1/2 synth 1/2 castor, but SIG Champion is  only 20 % total oil, I have built hundreds of these motors and can tell you that if you add 4% more oil to your Champion it will run very well for a long time, and  will keep the engine cleaner and will not  stick the ring from the castor build up.

If you want to boost the Champion up to about 24% total oil you will need to add  5.12 ounces of castor  to the gallon

Randy

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2007, 05:46:57 PM »
Never cared for the way Tom does his ST needles and do not understand the reason.. A sprinkler works great and if you really want to get fancy do a sprinkler/spigot setup. Brett explained this with drawings on SSW a while back and what I have done on all my ST 46's and 51's.. Works great and no need to drill for another needle..

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2007, 06:09:52 PM »
Hi Crist

Not really true. it only matters where the fuel goes out in the air  not  where the needle is, In a true venturie instead of a restrictor, the fuel enters the atmosphere lower than where the needle is, so there is almost  zero differance as far as  where the tank is located. but you do loose the advantages of the true venturie and also you will have the disadvantage of having another hole drilled in the case , and you will have to make sure you completly seal the open holes that you leave when you drill the case.

Regards
Randy

Randy,
I answered the question in regards to a standard C/L motor from the Factory.  As you can see from the picture that the NVA is a further distance from the motor mounts.  Now compare the one Tom delivers.  As you can see the NVA is less distance from the motor mount.  We are not talking about true venturis and where the fuel enters the air stream.  In my examples, the fuel basically enters the air stream where the needle is (less the diameter of the spray bar which in this case are the same).  I still stand by my comment.  Using these two pictures as a basis.  With all due respect, please explain why I'm wrong using these pictures.
Crist
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Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline RandySmith

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2007, 07:14:10 PM »
Randy,
I answered the question in regards to a standard C/L motor from the Factory.  As you can see from the picture that the NVA is a further distance from the motor mounts.  Now compare the one Tom delivers.  As you can see the NVA is less distance from the motor mount.  We are not talking about true venturis and where the fuel enters the air stream.  In my examples, the fuel basically enters the air stream where the needle is (less the diameter of the spray bar which in this case are the same).  I still stand by my comment.  Using these two pictures as a basis.  With all due respect, please explain why I'm wrong using these pictures.

Hi Crist

I didn't see that you were referring to the  way Super Tiger now does the 51 , Compared to the horrible setup in the picture, you are not wrong, Super Tiger just started doing this in the very last 60 and their 51 motors, That is the worst restrictor setup I have seen in any motor so far.
I was referring to  the standard Venturi as opposed  to the restrictor setup drilled thru the case, but my only point  was  that it only matters  where the fuel enters the airflow , not where the NVA is.

regards
Randy

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2007, 07:21:19 PM »
Randy,
I thought that's what you meant.  You had me going there for awhile.

All the best,
Crist
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Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Casey

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 11:39:51 PM »
Hi Greg

Where did you get the NVA and venturi? I would like to have the same venturi nva setupfor my ST G51

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 12:18:06 AM »
I flew my ex-Dirt G.51 with a stock type venturi with the spraybar mounted above the case, and then later with the T&L venturi setup, with the NV mounted in the case on centerline of the venturi bore. DID NOT have to adjust tank height at all, FYI. If you read the writings of both Rabe and Fancher, they both experimented with changing the spraybar height with NO CHANGE required in tank height.

When I added a sump to the bottom of my SV-11's 6 oz metal tank (holds 7 oz now), NO CHANGE in tank height was required. The engine "sees" only the outboard end of the uniflow tube, from what I've read. NO, I don't understand it either.  I'm hoping Howard will 'splain.
 y1 Steve

PS: Why does auto-correct keep trying to change "venturi" to "venture"? Isn't "venturi" in the dictionary? Is this part of a plot to dumb-down America?

 
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Gene O'Keefe

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 08:22:18 AM »
To: Ken Deboy ..... with sadness from the stunt community, Mr. Tom Lay aka T&L passed away
several months ago. I have had 5 of my Tigre engines reworked by Tom and can say that they run superb. Your only hope would be to find one on either one of the forums or on Ebay. If you find one you won't be disappointed and not to worry about the case drilling, Tom was an expert on Tigre engines.
Gene O'Keefe
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Offline EddyR

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2014, 06:06:31 AM »
 I will add my two cents to the ST/51 problems. I bought two CL versions from Tower Years ago. Ran them with stock NV mounted in the tall tube added above the case. They were erratic at best and then the rings broke in both. They sat for years and last year when I had Frank make me some Double Star parts I ordered rings for them. Still erratic so on one I moved the needle down to the draw bar hole and made a sprinkler venturi for it. On the other one I drilled the case. Both now ran well, no longer erratic and now much more powerful. I put one in my 70oz Bearcat and it flew it easily.
 I believe most of the early problems came from the oddball venturi. One thing I found  my motors like a short venturi,one half inch works well with a .292 hole for the drilled case. It seems to me that a long venturi makes the motor RPM sensitive.
 Just my thought on what worked for me. I am looking forward to the Brian ABC P/L.    I am getting pretty old so I hope he doesn't take to long H^^
EddyR
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: T&L ST G51
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2014, 03:49:05 PM »
To be 100% clear...I said I ran the ex-Dirt G.51 with a "stock type" venturi...it most certainly was not a stock part. Whether there was anything magical about the design of the Dirt venturi, I can't say. But a lot has to do with how well sealed the venturi and spraybar are, if you believe what Brett says on that subject. I've seen Brett diagnose and work to correct OP's problems, so I tend to believe. H^^ Steve 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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