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Author Topic: Double Star 40’s  (Read 2618 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Double Star 40’s
« on: May 26, 2025, 09:20:11 AM »
Recently acquired two Double Star Classic 40’s with no boxes or paperwork. I can tell that one has been run a little, the other appears unrun. I only got one muffler though ☹️.
I’m aware that these were supposed to be drop-in replacements for the Fox 35. I can’t recall for sure, but they certainly look to be manufactured by the same guy that did the Brodak 40 (of which I have many of).

So my question is; does anyone have paperwork for these or is familiar with the proper break-in routine? Common sense is  telling me to follow the same procedure as the Brodak, but I thought I might check here for someone with actual experience with Double Star engines.

….and if anyone happens to have a extra muffler ….👍
-Clint-

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Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2025, 03:00:30 PM »
Clint: I'm not positive but I seem to recall that Tom Dixon having something to do with these engines.
Doesn't hurt to check.
Although I have no personal experience, some fellows from north Jersey were using them and they seemed to perform well.
The only negative comment I recall hearing was some break-in issues due to a tight piston/liner fit.
One guy actually hand fitted the piston/liner with good results.
And yes, they were supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the Fox 35.

I hope this helps.

Bob Z.

Offline M Spencer

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2025, 12:19:00 AM »
 but I thought I might check here for someone with actual experience with Double Star engines.
Not Me.

These Do .

https://stunthanger.com/smf/engine-set-up-tips/double-star-40/

Offline M Spencer

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2025, 12:22:18 AM »
Quote
                       Double Star Classic 40
                        by Derek Pickard   

          Derek Pickard tests the latest replica engine and finds a superb upgrade on a top selling traditional 35.

         The Double Star company in the little-known country of Moldova in Eastern Europe makes its living manufacturing specialist competition engines, mainly team race 2.5s. Recently it moved into western markets with its replica of a Tigre 60. When reviewed, that version was found to be of excellent quality and top performance and it was obvious we'd all be hearing more about this engine maker.

        Keen to back-up on the success. Double Star has now turned its attention to the Fox 35 and given that all-time favorite the top treatment. The Classic 40 is the same size as the Fox, weighs the same and bolts into the same mounts; but there the similarity ends as this is no ordinary replica, this is a total up-grade and the specification is as excellent as the quality.

       Within the exterior dimensions of the Fox 35. Double Star has used contemporary AAC liner-piston technology which, together with a bigger bore and stroke, enlarges the capacity out to a 40 without any penalty in weight. The result is a 15% increase in cubes which with less piston/liner friction results in a performance gain of at least 20% in output.

       Make no mistake about it this Classic 40 is a lightweight, compact, full 40 stunt motor. The fact that it fits straight into Fox 35 mounts is a bonus. This is the lightest 40 dead serious stunt motor on the market and the performance is excellent.

       Suddenly all those fantastic ships of the 1950s and 1960s which were flown with a Fox 35 years ago, but appear to be underpowered by today's standards, can now be taken out of storage. Dropping in a Classic 40 gives them a new lease of life as this motor can pull a bigger prop to hold better line tension in the wind while not worrying about the plane size and weight that bothered the 35.

Because of this retrofitting facility, the market for this new compact Double Star is huge.

       The specification of this new 40 is a weight of just six and a half ounces, a bore and stroke of 21.2x18.5mm. 274 thou venturi .138 degrees exhaust timing, 120 degrees transfer timing. 36-45 degrees shaft timing and an 8:1 compression in a hemi head. Against thai the Fox 35 is slightly smaller with 20x18 bore and stroke with under 7:1 compression 130 degrees exhaust timing. 110 transfer timing and 45- 35 shaft timing. Those numbers, together with the iron piston, mean it needs around 10% nitro and 25% castor oil to give a slightly lower power performance.

       The materials applications side of the Moldovan engine is impressive with a bushed main shaft bushed conrod with oil holes, bridged ports with expansion slit just below the exhaust window and an AAC piston bore where the alloy liner is chrome plated and well matched in expansion to the high silicon alloy piston. Two thou bore taper is used and the top of the piston is taper-relieved by one thou.

Running-in takes about 15 minutes and 20% castor oil is plenty. Also 5% nitro is about right with the stock compression. Adding more nitro does further improve output but it should be done in conjunction with a head shim.

       A well made needle with a long smooth taper is used that complements the engine's stage of development to give precise settings right through the rev range. Starting and setting this engine is a delight. In operation, a 11x5.5 prop proves best and the test plane was a stock Thunderbird Mk I. This had been originally built for a Fox 35 but needed a lot of nitro to fly the 54 ounce model. Subsequent swapping to a Merco 35 saw the plane's performance improve but the final switch to the Double Star Classic 40 answered all the plane's dreams.

      The classic Tee-Bird now flies as beautiful as it looks. The new 40 can be easily set to a classic 4-2-4 stunt run which handles the bigger prop effortlessly. More importantly, the plane is much better in the wind.

To respond to the obvious question of: "How good is this new 40 when set against the six 40s compared last year?" The answer is I can confidently state the power is at least that of a modified OS FP40 and as good as the Stalker 40 but behind Lew Woolard's modified Fox 40 ABC TBR. But the biggggg advantage with this Double Star is the light weight compact size and the fact that it bolts straight into a Fox 35         plane taking the same muffler. Those pluses certainly put the new engine well up the ratings to be at least equal second in the conventional 40 stunt engine ratings. Praise indeed.

Conclusion:  Double Star's business approach of taking a proven stunt engine, developing it further and adding the latest metallurgy makes an excellent product. The highest recommendation.

borrowed from , https://clstunt.ru/ wot borrowed it from ACLN or Stunt News . Id think . Other tripe there . if yours is got TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH today , wot I havnt .
you can acces it here : https://www.youtube.com/@evgenykhromov5792 Top Link . Lowers a forum fing .
Dunno if you dont do the " Ten Heat Cycles " trick , then fly it , a notch rich .
Were orrible synthetics early on , which is WHY they then said AVOID THEM , Nowadays , theyre a lot better . So you can pick & chose . Or go 50 / 50 .

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2025, 08:16:38 AM »
For what it is worth:

The DS 40 mounting pattern is the same as the Fox 35.  However, the crankshaft is longer, so it is not a drop in replacement.  You will have to modify the nose of the plane.

Power is a bit more than the Fox, and the DS 40 will turn a larger prop.

I ran mine on 5% or 10% nitro, depending on the weather conditions.  20% oil, most likely 50/50 castor/synthetic.  It has been a long time ago, so I do not remember for sure.

Now for the problems:  In stock form, the three DS 40s I had "ran away."  Halfway thru the pattern, the engine went dead lean, in a constant 2 stroke.  Others with the same issue tried everything--more oil, more head shims, etc.  Nothing worked.

What works is to enlarge the venturi to about 0.300.  Leave everything else alone.  Adding head shims to cure the run away only cuts power even more.  I think I ran mine on one head shim, perhaps .010 inch thick.

The stock venturi is too small.  Not enough air getting in, so you have to go in on the needle to get it to run.  This also cuts the amount of oil getting to the engine.  The engine overheats and the plug fires on every stroke.  Thus, the runaway.

If you think a venturi of 0.300 is too large, the Brodak 40 has a venturi that big.  The Brodak 40 runs very well out of the box.




Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2025, 09:50:00 AM »
Adding head shims to cure the run away only cuts power even more.

    Adding head shims in almost any engine *does not cure "runaway"!  If anything, it makes it more likely. Reducing the compression slows down the transition from 4 to 2 and back, and reduces the difference in the power. At some point, with low enough compression, it transitions and stays, and the power is low you have to run it near the transition point. Higher compression makes it transition back and forth faster, and makes the power difference between 2 and 4 larger.

    There are other things that affect the transition, of course, like the effective thermal mass, and the overall system friction - more thermal mass and more friction = slower transition (or none...). That's why a Fox 35 can switch back and forth quickly even though it has absurdly low compression - very low thermal mass and (when broken in sufficiently) low drag.  It has nearly no change in the power.

     I am not sure where anyone got the idea to stack in head gaskets to fix "runaways". Or, actually, I can make a good guess where. Why anyone started listening to them is beyond me, this is really basic stuff, stunt engines 101.

     Brett

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2025, 11:14:05 AM »
Brett, you are correct that adding head shims just makes the problem worse.  I found that out trying to cure the problem.  But, we listened to the advice (the source you are referring to), and I ended up so frustrated that I gave up on it, until I came across a larger venturi as the cure to the DS 40 run away issue.

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2025, 11:50:46 AM »
I remember one instance where I came across a Double Star 40 with four head shims stacked up on it.  Needless to say, the plane would barely make it thru an inside loop, and the run away persisted. 

Offline Lauri Malila

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2025, 02:15:49 PM »
With any engine that is produced in small series, like Stalkers and such, I would not trust the amount/thickness of head shims as an indicator of CR. Just look at the cumulative tolerances of the engine parts and you should get the point.
The one and only way to quickly analyse the differences between different specimens, and to somehow accurately copy a setting from one engine to another is to measure the head volume with piston in tdc and adjust accordingly with shims. All you need is a 2-3ml syringe with a needle. L

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2025, 06:22:28 PM »
I've mentioned this before but I had a problem with an ST G51 that, no matter what I tried to tame it, the moment it went from 4 stroking in level flight it would instantly break into a screaming 2 stroke as soon as I pointed the nose up to start a loop and then needed a couple of level laps to return to a 4 stroke. I played with it for a month and was so disgusted with it I was going to put it back in its box and forget about it. On what was to be its last flights I ran out of my normal fuel (80/20 all castor) but I happened to have some 75/25 all castor so I figured what the heck, give it a try. Instant rock steady 4 stroke the entire flight! It took me some time to figure out the cause of such a dramatic change but finally the light dawned on me. I knew it was very economical on the amount of fuel it needed for a flight and that was the answer. The 80/20 wasn't providing enough oil flow to stop it from overheating which caused it to go into a 2 stroke and then needed the couple of level laps to let it cool back down again.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2025, 09:55:44 PM »
I've mentioned this before but I had a problem with an ST G51 that, no matter what I tried to tame it, the moment it went from 4 stroking in level flight it would instantly break into a screaming 2 stroke as soon as I pointed the nose up to start a loop and then needed a couple of level laps to return to a 4 stroke. I played with it for a month and was so disgusted with it I was going to put it back in its box and forget about it. On what was to be its last flights I ran out of my normal fuel (80/20 all castor) but I happened to have some 75/25 all castor so I figured what the heck, give it a try. Instant rock steady 4 stroke the entire flight! It took me some time to figure out the cause of such a dramatic change but finally the light dawned on me. I knew it was very economical on the amount of fuel it needed for a flight and that was the answer. The 80/20 wasn't providing enough oil flow to stop it from overheating which caused it to go into a 2 stroke and then needed the couple of level laps to let it cool back down again.

   You are right on the money for your ST.G-51, but it is a ringed engine. I don't think those Double Star engine will like that much oil, and certainly not all castor.. Metallurgy and clearances play a big part in  the play here.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2025, 07:59:42 AM »
Thanks for the replies  H^^
-Clint-

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Double Star 40’s
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2025, 11:44:21 PM »
George Aldrich got my NIB DS .40 along with one from somebody else and measured everything. His verdict was that the compression ratio was way too low, apparently the folks in Moldova being skeered of what Nitro Methane would do. He was VERY impressed with the quality of the machining. George cut the head as much as he felt safe without making a new one from barstock. We know George was a fan of low C/R, so I'd take that to mean it was serously low! I had two at one time, and sold both of them to a CL guy in Hawaii, one GMA and one stock.

Along those lines, retired OTS expert Pete Peterson used DS .40's in his beautiful Jamisons after breaking cranks in many Fox .35 Stunts, including one with a Zoot crankshaft. I'm not sure how much vitamin N Pete used (probably 10%), but I do know he used an APC 9.5x4.5 and launched at 12k...which may have had something to do with it! The DS .40 didn't break, so that was impressive. 

I would heat the cylinder and head with a heat gun prior to any attempt to start it up. I'd have doubts about all-synthetic oil with the bushed main bearing, but would also have doubts about all-castor. Brodak 40's were made by 2 Star, so I think their fuel/oil instructions would apply perfectly and would go with that. One of my favorite engines is my Double Star .60bb ABC. I ran it on 10-22 GMA Powermaster and it never complained a bit. Sad that 2 Star went Tango Utah.  H^^ Steve
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