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Author Topic: Diesel fuel  (Read 1156 times)

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Diesel fuel
« on: February 17, 2020, 03:59:30 AM »
What is the best source for Diesel fuel these days?

Or, does anyone here have a good formula for homebrew?

THANKS, Bob Z.

Offline Brad LaPointe

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 06:21:50 AM »
Esso farm supply . Delivered directly to my farm .

Brad

Online Fredvon4

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2020, 07:09:46 AM »
probably does not want lo sulfur diesel fuel for a tractor

I am betting small engine fuel premixed with oil.....ether, cetane booster, kerosene or white gas, Klotz


home brew recipes are plenty full....my google fu today is not working

in usa highest ether content is John Deere starter fluid* decanted....has about 80%  ether

some NAPA stores carry it......
*caution known to cause cancer...if you use it in California....else where it can make you comatose, other places it is fire hazard

"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Brad LaPointe

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2020, 07:37:56 AM »
The John Deere store used to be a great place to buy talcum powder also . Used to lube the seed plates in grain planters . All diesel is low sulphur these days . Just don’t get caught using it in your pickup! Or your model engine .

Brad 

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2020, 08:32:55 AM »
there should be an article in the next issue of NCLRA news letter on Diesels in general and fuels
rad racer


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2020, 10:30:34 AM »
I mix my own.  Use kerosene from ACE Hardware, SIG castor oil and John Deere Starter fluid.   You have to invert the starter fluid can and blled off the propellant and cautiously punch hole in top of can.   Need air tight container to pour it in.   I have a graduated cylinder to mix with.  I also use the fuel bottles that Billy B. recommends. D>K

By the way I mix 25% oil,  35% starting fluid and the rest is kerosene.  Have not used the diesel ignition improver some say to use. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2020, 03:37:31 PM »
Bob,
The Red Max guys were doing model diesel fuel might be worth a try. I like the John Deer Starter Fluid (https://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-80-percent-Premium-Ether-Starting-Fluid-RE556468.html) part #: RE 556468. Basically, mix 35% John Deer, 25% oil (either castor/syn or SAE 60 will work) and the remaining 39% kero and 1% ignition improver (AMSOIL Cetane Improver) is a good starting place for steel/iron engines.
.
You can also use a simple mix of any starting fluid that has at least 50% ether; Johnsen's Premium Starting Fluid 50% is good (if ether is the first listed ingredient its good). Mix this with 25% oil, 1% Amsoil CI and go, could add 10% kero if you want to stretch the SF.

Now if you want to get the SF out of the can and not spray into the mix jar you can cool the can, turn over the can and spray out all the propellent, let the can sit a few minutes then invert and spray out the last of the propellent. Now cool the can in the frig for 1/2 hour or so. Next, take a sharp ice pick or punch and pop three holes along the top seam on one side and one vent hole on the other. Pour into quart tin fuel can. Seal it very tight. Now you can mix in the rest of the components.

Best,   DennisT

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 11:04:23 AM »
Never thought of placing can in refrigerator. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 01:46:50 PM »
I never liked the ideas of punching a hole in the Deere ether can.  I spray it into a quart jar, with Saran wrap covering everything, including my fingers.  You lose a little bit, but it's safe.  Also you don't have to use the whole can of Deere SF.  The rest can stay for later.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Offline Abi

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2020, 01:48:53 PM »
Abi
السلام عليكم

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 03:35:32 PM »
Abi,
It looks like it is the type of ether we use, just seems a bit expense. The John Deer SF is about $4 for 7oz can.

Best,   DennisT

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2020, 05:16:18 PM »
John Deere start fluid contains 80% ether.  Other brands about 50%, with unknown additives.  I've tried other brands, with poor results.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2020, 07:17:15 PM »
The JD starting fluid can be used pretty much in the same % as if straight ether (maybe 5% more). With the lesser % starter fluids you need to consider adjust the % ether to account for the other ingredient (in most it is heptane, which is similar to kero). So if you want 30% ether with 50% ether SF you need to use 60% SF then add the 25% oil and the balance (15%) kero.

I like Floyd's approach using the spray into the jar approach to getting the ether/SF into a fuel mix container.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 05:19:11 AM »
Gents: Thanks for all the very helpful replies.
Most of my engines are small plain bearing - .049 up to .15. Probably steel liner/iron piston, many various nationalities.
Dennis: the formula you stated - would that be suitable for both plain and ball bearing engines?
Where would I find the ignition improver?

THANKS AGAIN!

Bob Z.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2020, 08:22:32 AM »
        Hi Robert:

         Ignition improver can be found at many sources.  It is sometime called cetaceans boost or improver.  I am using Amsoil centane boost that I paid $8.10 for from a nabob recently.

          I am not positive but I think that John Deere ether may have an additive that produces a dark colored exhaust residue the same as when the engine is over compressed.  Let us know if you too notice this dark residue.


                      Frank

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 11:39:38 AM »
Red Max either is one of the lowest grades of either u can buy. it is used as a cleaning agent . our racing 15 diesels will not give the  same settings back to back..i don't know how it compares to the starter fluids but it cost me 3 months of testing before we figured out the problem.i have not had a chance to try Amsoil CB yet but will try it in my next batch of fuel as I am running low on DII

I believe the fuel sold by Davis Diesel has no DII in it

35% either 20-22%oil.1,5-2.5% DII the rest Kero. will run in just about any Diesel engine. the further u get away from this mix the better your chances of having problems.

the best Either is anhydrous medical grade from Fisher Cem, but u need to be on of their dealers to buy it.

there is a BIG gap between the Drone that will run on oil and either and the F2C racing diesels where .01 % of dii makes a diff along with the diff grades of KERO. English Oliver Tigers don't want to run without some sort of DII
rad racer

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 01:40:20 PM »
Two quick thoughts...

We blend fuels by volume. The John Deere lists it has 80% diethyl ether, which appears to be by weight. Ether is lighter than water; its specific gravity (weight compared to volume) is about 0.8. SO... 80% by eight means 100% by volume for our purposes. In our units, 8 ounces (weight) of ether makes 10 fluid ounces of ether. That's almost a third of a quart, close to the % we want!

Second, the JD ether cans have a spray cap. WD-40 cans (usually, at least) use a spray cap with a thin straw. A little experimenting will find a spray cap w/straw that fits the JD can. I 'catch' the ether in  the quart mason jars used for canning fruits and vegetables. These have replaceable inner lids.

Punch one inner lid with a hole a bit larger than the straw, and have another lid - or jar - with an intact 'inner'  - handy. Chill the jar a bit, and spray the JD in through the hole. The clearance lets  propellant, or the ether's vapor pressure, to escape. The chilled glass helps the ether condense to liquid. Capture is pretty darn good. You are using the pressure to get the ether out.

When you've got most of it out,  and pressure is gone, there's still some liquid in the can. THIS is the time to punch two (or more) holes in the rim of the can. One hole, of course, to pour out the remainder, the other for a vent. When the can has been really emptied, switch to an intact jar lid to seal against evaporation loss. Of course, don't leave the jar sitting in the sun, or some other 'too warm' place until you blend your batch.

BTW, if you've drawn out enough for a batch, and some remains in the JD can, that's a good place to store it until you need it. A partially emptied can is useful when your blend needs a bit more ether than one can provides.

Safe,  with reasonable care. Effective.  Little waste  or mess. Sensible storage...
\BEST\LOU

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2020, 02:14:28 PM »
To Bob Z, original post:

The long time classic formula for our "diesels" is "1:1:1"   - one third ether, one third kerosene, one third castor. That is a bit low on kerosene, and a bit high on oil. Ignition improvers at low % can often help.

Kerosene is the power in the fuel; the oil should not burn, and ether has less heat yield than kerosene.

PAW, for example, recommends this blend for break-in, and higher % kerosene and lower % oil after break-in depending on use. They still recommend "sensible" proportions.

Less ether and VERY low oil %'s can work for steady-speed racing conditions, where endurance on a tank-fill is important. Higher consumption means more pit stops, each of which doesn't get you nearer the finish.  You don't face the extreme prop load changes that maneuvering involves... Nor do you expect to be competitive with an engine you're not willing to run very near its ragged edge.

\BEST\LOU

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 02:17:51 PM »
oops
\BEST\LOU

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2020, 03:55:26 PM »
Bob,
I assume you are going to use the diesel for stunt or sport flying and not racing or high performance events. The starter fluid mix has been used by Adrian Duncan (website: https://adriansmodelaeroengines.com/catalog/main.php?cat_id=3) see articles in the technical section -  Fuels for Variable Compression Model Diesels. In this article he does discuss using John Deer and other starter fluid blends that work.

For the steel/iron plain bearing engine it is the same as running a Fox 35, you need 25% + amount of oil. For the smaller displacement (1/2 A"s ish) they usually use 35 -45% ether, helps with starting. For oil you could use mineral oil like you use in the ignition engines with a bit of castor. The ignition improver is AMSOIL Cetane Booster (http\\Amsoil.com), only need 1% or so. It is for road diesel and could be available in truck stops of or auto stores.

Best,   DennisT

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2020, 06:12:24 PM »
will throw this in free of charge

if u flood a diesel and it wont start ,the ether is gone with only kerosene and oil left .blow it out ,and re prime and it should start H^^
rad racer

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2020, 12:26:02 AM »
It is sometime called cetaceans boost or improver.

We use it here on Orcas. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Online Fredvon4

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Re: Diesel fuel
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2020, 08:34:48 AM »
damn Howard you made me spit coffee...(again)...I bet very few get it....grin
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV


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