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Engine basics => Engine set up tips => Topic started by: Robert Zambelli on February 17, 2020, 03:59:30 AM
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What is the best source for Diesel fuel these days?
Or, does anyone here have a good formula for homebrew?
THANKS, Bob Z.
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Esso farm supply . Delivered directly to my farm .
Brad
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probably does not want lo sulfur diesel fuel for a tractor
I am betting small engine fuel premixed with oil.....ether, cetane booster, kerosene or white gas, Klotz
home brew recipes are plenty full....my google fu today is not working
in usa highest ether content is John Deere starter fluid* decanted....has about 80% ether
some NAPA stores carry it......
*caution known to cause cancer...if you use it in California....else where it can make you comatose, other places it is fire hazard
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The John Deere store used to be a great place to buy talcum powder also . Used to lube the seed plates in grain planters . All diesel is low sulphur these days . Just don’t get caught using it in your pickup! Or your model engine .
Brad
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there should be an article in the next issue of NCLRA news letter on Diesels in general and fuels
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https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-fuels-161/11657787-simple-diesel-homebrew.html#post12562909
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12373-diesel-fuel-purchase-or-mix-ur-own?highlight=diesel+fuel
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t13440-diesel-noob?highlight=diesel+fuel
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12698-eric-clutton-aka-dr-diesel?highlight=diesel+fuel
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I mix my own. Use kerosene from ACE Hardware, SIG castor oil and John Deere Starter fluid. You have to invert the starter fluid can and blled off the propellant and cautiously punch hole in top of can. Need air tight container to pour it in. I have a graduated cylinder to mix with. I also use the fuel bottles that Billy B. recommends. D>K
By the way I mix 25% oil, 35% starting fluid and the rest is kerosene. Have not used the diesel ignition improver some say to use. D>K
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Bob,
The Red Max guys were doing model diesel fuel might be worth a try. I like the John Deer Starter Fluid (https://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-80-percent-Premium-Ether-Starting-Fluid-RE556468.html) part #: RE 556468. Basically, mix 35% John Deer, 25% oil (either castor/syn or SAE 60 will work) and the remaining 39% kero and 1% ignition improver (AMSOIL Cetane Improver) is a good starting place for steel/iron engines.
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You can also use a simple mix of any starting fluid that has at least 50% ether; Johnsen's Premium Starting Fluid 50% is good (if ether is the first listed ingredient its good). Mix this with 25% oil, 1% Amsoil CI and go, could add 10% kero if you want to stretch the SF.
Now if you want to get the SF out of the can and not spray into the mix jar you can cool the can, turn over the can and spray out all the propellent, let the can sit a few minutes then invert and spray out the last of the propellent. Now cool the can in the frig for 1/2 hour or so. Next, take a sharp ice pick or punch and pop three holes along the top seam on one side and one vent hole on the other. Pour into quart tin fuel can. Seal it very tight. Now you can mix in the rest of the components.
Best, DennisT
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Never thought of placing can in refrigerator. D>K
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I never liked the ideas of punching a hole in the Deere ether can. I spray it into a quart jar, with Saran wrap covering everything, including my fingers. You lose a little bit, but it's safe. Also you don't have to use the whole can of Deere SF. The rest can stay for later.
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Can something like this work? Is this Ether?
https://www.amazon.com/Diethyl-Anhydrous-Reagent-Contains-Inhibitor/dp/B07859MPC6
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Abi,
It looks like it is the type of ether we use, just seems a bit expense. The John Deer SF is about $4 for 7oz can.
Best, DennisT
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John Deere start fluid contains 80% ether. Other brands about 50%, with unknown additives. I've tried other brands, with poor results.
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The JD starting fluid can be used pretty much in the same % as if straight ether (maybe 5% more). With the lesser % starter fluids you need to consider adjust the % ether to account for the other ingredient (in most it is heptane, which is similar to kero). So if you want 30% ether with 50% ether SF you need to use 60% SF then add the 25% oil and the balance (15%) kero.
I like Floyd's approach using the spray into the jar approach to getting the ether/SF into a fuel mix container.
Best, DennisT
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Gents: Thanks for all the very helpful replies.
Most of my engines are small plain bearing - .049 up to .15. Probably steel liner/iron piston, many various nationalities.
Dennis: the formula you stated - would that be suitable for both plain and ball bearing engines?
Where would I find the ignition improver?
THANKS AGAIN!
Bob Z.
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Hi Robert:
Ignition improver can be found at many sources. It is sometime called cetaceans boost or improver. I am using Amsoil centane boost that I paid $8.10 for from a nabob recently.
I am not positive but I think that John Deere ether may have an additive that produces a dark colored exhaust residue the same as when the engine is over compressed. Let us know if you too notice this dark residue.
Frank
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Red Max either is one of the lowest grades of either u can buy. it is used as a cleaning agent . our racing 15 diesels will not give the same settings back to back..i don't know how it compares to the starter fluids but it cost me 3 months of testing before we figured out the problem.i have not had a chance to try Amsoil CB yet but will try it in my next batch of fuel as I am running low on DII
I believe the fuel sold by Davis Diesel has no DII in it
35% either 20-22%oil.1,5-2.5% DII the rest Kero. will run in just about any Diesel engine. the further u get away from this mix the better your chances of having problems.
the best Either is anhydrous medical grade from Fisher Cem, but u need to be on of their dealers to buy it.
there is a BIG gap between the Drone that will run on oil and either and the F2C racing diesels where .01 % of dii makes a diff along with the diff grades of KERO. English Oliver Tigers don't want to run without some sort of DII
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Two quick thoughts...
We blend fuels by volume. The John Deere lists it has 80% diethyl ether, which appears to be by weight. Ether is lighter than water; its specific gravity (weight compared to volume) is about 0.8. SO... 80% by eight means 100% by volume for our purposes. In our units, 8 ounces (weight) of ether makes 10 fluid ounces of ether. That's almost a third of a quart, close to the % we want!
Second, the JD ether cans have a spray cap. WD-40 cans (usually, at least) use a spray cap with a thin straw. A little experimenting will find a spray cap w/straw that fits the JD can. I 'catch' the ether in the quart mason jars used for canning fruits and vegetables. These have replaceable inner lids.
Punch one inner lid with a hole a bit larger than the straw, and have another lid - or jar - with an intact 'inner' - handy. Chill the jar a bit, and spray the JD in through the hole. The clearance lets propellant, or the ether's vapor pressure, to escape. The chilled glass helps the ether condense to liquid. Capture is pretty darn good. You are using the pressure to get the ether out.
When you've got most of it out, and pressure is gone, there's still some liquid in the can. THIS is the time to punch two (or more) holes in the rim of the can. One hole, of course, to pour out the remainder, the other for a vent. When the can has been really emptied, switch to an intact jar lid to seal against evaporation loss. Of course, don't leave the jar sitting in the sun, or some other 'too warm' place until you blend your batch.
BTW, if you've drawn out enough for a batch, and some remains in the JD can, that's a good place to store it until you need it. A partially emptied can is useful when your blend needs a bit more ether than one can provides.
Safe, with reasonable care. Effective. Little waste or mess. Sensible storage...
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To Bob Z, original post:
The long time classic formula for our "diesels" is "1:1:1" - one third ether, one third kerosene, one third castor. That is a bit low on kerosene, and a bit high on oil. Ignition improvers at low % can often help.
Kerosene is the power in the fuel; the oil should not burn, and ether has less heat yield than kerosene.
PAW, for example, recommends this blend for break-in, and higher % kerosene and lower % oil after break-in depending on use. They still recommend "sensible" proportions.
Less ether and VERY low oil %'s can work for steady-speed racing conditions, where endurance on a tank-fill is important. Higher consumption means more pit stops, each of which doesn't get you nearer the finish. You don't face the extreme prop load changes that maneuvering involves... Nor do you expect to be competitive with an engine you're not willing to run very near its ragged edge.
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oops
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Bob,
I assume you are going to use the diesel for stunt or sport flying and not racing or high performance events. The starter fluid mix has been used by Adrian Duncan (website: https://adriansmodelaeroengines.com/catalog/main.php?cat_id=3) see articles in the technical section - Fuels for Variable Compression Model Diesels. In this article he does discuss using John Deer and other starter fluid blends that work.
For the steel/iron plain bearing engine it is the same as running a Fox 35, you need 25% + amount of oil. For the smaller displacement (1/2 A"s ish) they usually use 35 -45% ether, helps with starting. For oil you could use mineral oil like you use in the ignition engines with a bit of castor. The ignition improver is AMSOIL Cetane Booster (http\\Amsoil.com), only need 1% or so. It is for road diesel and could be available in truck stops of or auto stores.
Best, DennisT
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will throw this in free of charge
if u flood a diesel and it wont start ,the ether is gone with only kerosene and oil left .blow it out ,and re prime and it should start H^^
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It is sometime called cetaceans boost or improver.
We use it here on Orcas.
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damn Howard you made me spit coffee...(again)...I bet very few get it....grin