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Author Topic: Did anybod ever "burn up" or damage an engine while running all cator oil?  (Read 1883 times)

Offline frank mccune

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       Hi All:

        I should have stated that the engines had cast iron piston and steel sleeves that I was asking about like the Fox, OS and Enya engines.

       
      The reason that I ask is I have seen some brutal engine running conditions, very lean for a long time, 10-15 minute flights, and lean racing conditions in which the engines failed to have any damage.  These engines were run on at least 28% castor oil.  After cooling, the engines were cooled, the compression was still very good and to this day they start easily and run very well.  Perhaps I saw the exception to the rule.  One engine that was subjected to this torture was an O.S. .35 s that was run in a very very lean condition for about 15 minutes.  When it landed one could feel the heat from the engine starting at about a distance of 6 feet! To this day it is a one flip starter and runs very well. 

      Any truth to the notion that one can not burn up an engine running all castor oil for  a lube?  Any Speed fliers ever notice this idea about all castor oil for a lube?

       Oh yes, I have seen a few engines ruined by having been run on very lean flights by running on LHS fuel!!!!!  I noticed that one gallon of fuel was labeled as having 12% oil and the other as having 14% oil. 

        Thoughts and or comments?

                                                                                                      Be well,

                                                                                                      Frank McCune

Offline RandySmith

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Yes Frank , there have been 1000s  of engines  ruined by running  all castor,  there  has also been  1000s of engines  ruined by running  LHS fuel, why don't you read my fuel article pinned to the top of this forum

Randy

Offline frank mccune

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     Hello Randy:

      I have read your post concerning fuels and lubricating oils. 


                                                                                                          Frank McCune

Offline RandySmith

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up/Down side of castor  and  synthetics

Years ago, most fuels had only one oil ,castor.  This is still a very good oil with many good but some bad points.  Some of its good points; it carries heat out of the motor and gives a good plating action on all surfaces, especially when they’re hot. It also has tendencies to move toward hot surfaces, helping to protect them.  A few of its bad points; it burns and sticks to the piston sides and the ring groove and all other parts that are hot enough, and will carbonize the chamber. It will stick rings in their grooves, freeze wrist pins and build up ridges on sleeves.  This causes excess friction and heat and will ruin your motor in time.

The alternative to castor is synthetic oil and almost all fuels have these in them; the vast majority has all synthetic.  Virtually all fuel manufactures use one type of synthetic; these are normally polyalkylene glycol based oils.  They are mostly made up of alcohol started linear polymers , of oxypropylene groups.  These are made by several companies and are available in a large range of molecular weights and viscosities.

This group of oils is the modern version of the old Ucon oils and also have good and bad points.  Some of the goods points; they are very good lubes without containing any wax; they have outstanding load carrying capacity, film strength, anti-wear properties, are resistant to sludge formation, and will help keep your engine clean.  The bad points are they give no rust protection by themselves, they don’t plate hot surfaces as well as castor and they burn at high heats.

As you can see, both oils have advantages and disadvantages to them; it’s for these reasons that they work much better blending together than they could ever work alone.  Throughout many years of flying ,testing and other research have proven this to me beyond any doubt; plus you can see this for yourself.  Recently, a friend of mine had a motor that would go into the pattern and lean out and act very inconsistently.  The only change that was made was to substitute one tank of my fuel in the model.  The results were drastically different; the motor now ran very smoothly, going into a two cycle instantly when the nose was raised and back into a four cycle instantly when the plane was leveled.  This was tried back and forth both fuels; his and mine.  The results were  the same every time. I see this type of thing happen much too often, and it is extremely frustrating for Flyers to deal with. They often blame these fuel problems on cooling, cowlings, motors ,fuel filters, and unfortunately some don’t have a clue how to recognize or  solve this problem. This is  a frustration that you can live  without!

I would like to tell you there is one Stunt fuel formula to run in all motors, I said I would like to tell you that…unfortunately this is not the case, and will never be as long as we have such a wide range of motors and running styles.  What I will tell you is a good formula for the most common types of engines.  Make sure you pick a fuel supplier who will give you consistent fuel day to day ,and will blend fuel for your motor needs or has fuel to match your needs.  Stay away from any supplier who will not tell you the oil percentage, or who say one type works for all motors. I see this  much to  often also, It is unfortunate, but a lot of fuel manufactures will try to fool you about the oil and nitro percentage. One trick is to measure  by weight and not volume. Doing so, they can claim that the fuel is  for example 18 % oil , when in reality it is only 14.9 % oil content. Using weight  for ingredient , they can put in a  lot less oil and nitro . Other things are changing oil types, going to cheaper Nitro’s, and adding in other types of Nitro parrafins.

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Hello Frank

In my nearly 40 years of flying I have worn out many engines and never used anything other then my fuel with 23% caster oil but I had a lot fun wearing them out!
At lot were old cast iron/steel some were ABC or ABN and other were diesel, which seem easiest to wear out as a good fit seems more important for a diesel.

Most flying out of a single motor was a Magnum 40ABC that I used for regular display flying at MOTAT (aviation section of the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland New Zealand)  

Some were stuffed on a single run but normally from dirt/dust (especially combat motors) rather then from overheating or lean runs. Never used high tech oils as I like the smell of caster in my fuel but admit it does ruin four strokes and some 'modern' engines don't like it.

Regards Gerald

Offline Brett Buck

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Yes Frank , there have been 1000s  of engines  ruined by running  all castor, 

   Pretty much every engine that was ever wrecked from about 1948 to 1966 (when synthetic was introduced {even Fox Superfuel for a brief time}) was wrecked using castor oil!

     Brett

Offline RandySmith

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   Pretty much every engine that was ever wrecked from about 1948 to 1966 (when synthetic was introduced {even Fox Superfuel for a brief time}) was wrecked using castor oil!

     Brett

Right  you are ...  and  people are still ruining engines with castor  today ..  bad for ring motors, bad for iron engines, bad for AAC  ABC  ABN  in all or mostly all castor , it burns and sticks to the piston sides and sticks the ring in the  groove and all other parts that are hot enough, and will carbonize the chamber. Build up very badly on top of the piston, It will kill compression/power ny sticking rings in their grooves , freeze wrist pins and build up ridges on sleeves.  This causes excess friction and heat and will ruin your motor in time. Forget running in 4 strokes.
As  an update  I use to run as much as half castor in AAC type engines but no more, for the past 10 to 12 years I have ran a max of 1/4 castor, this is because of the detrimental affect today's castor has on glow plugs, my plugs last from 15 to 75 flights on heavy (50%) castor fuel, lowering the castor content doubles to triples the  life of the plugs

Randy

Offline Ken Burdick

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during the fast combat era that used Nelson .36 (and still today) most all are run using synthetic oil. A small amount of castor was helpful in the event of a shaft run or lean setting. With all the disadvantages of castor, one remains and that is  it's high temperature characteristic of not breaking down. It will if you really try, but overall gives a better protection than syn oils. Now...if you want to win and go fast, use syn oils and be careful with that needle valve. My fastest fuel was 80% nitro, 12 % soybean oil. If you set it wrong, time for a new piston and liner. Best speed was 198 mph. 

Offline Peter Nevai

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Randy has it right, many funky inconstant engine runs are fuel caused. There my be better but the last time I flew I had very good results with SIG 5% castor / synthetic blend if they still sell it try some. I remember many years ago I was flying with a OS 35 Stunt engine and was wondering why when wiping down the plane the oil (Castor oil) K&B fuel was black in color. I was informed by Gene Schaffer that the black was my engine wearing itself away. That was way back when I thought you had to crank down on the needle until the engine was running full bore. So yes engines can be ruined running castor. But on the other hand old worn engines may be resurrected temporarily by using a high castor content fuel
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"


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