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Author Topic: DeSaxe offset?  (Read 649 times)

Offline frank mccune

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DeSaxe offset?
« on: June 07, 2023, 07:34:15 AM »
      Hello:

       Are there any model airplane engines being produced with this feature today.  In the past, Fox and ST were the only ones that I remember doing this.

     Tia,

     Frank

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: DeSaxe offset?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2023, 05:20:27 PM »
All Mercos from 29 to 61 are Desaxe and the only other engine I've found with Desaxe was an SC 1.08 which came as a bit of a surprise to me when I was checking its port timings. I've also checked an SC 1.20 but it wasn't Desaxe. I'm not aware of any ST having that arrangement but I must admit that, when checking port timings, looking for Desaxe has never been on my mind even though it's quite easy to recognise. Remove the backplate and push the piston firmly down to BDC and if the conrod big end is slightly off to one side then it's Desaxe.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: DeSaxe offset?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2023, 07:14:37 AM »
     Hello Brian:

     Thank you for your reply.

     I may have made a mistake when I stated that ST engines also had the De Saxe feature.  I may have confused their tangential fuel/air induction system with the DeSaxe arrangement.  In any case, old age is not for the weak
!

     The De Saxe offset is a brilliant idea!

     Stay well,

     Frank

Offline Double Deuce

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Re: DeSaxe offset?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2023, 04:13:06 PM »
Some rambling thoughts follow in no certain order. Just the ramblings of a cluttered Cajun Mind(?)

Discussing the de Saxe is very much like discussing religion or politics. It is hard to find an unbiased opinion.

My first question for folks who have a firm opinion for it is, "which way?" I have engines, built my smarter folks than I, that are offset both ways. Not the same engine, of course. Both ways seem to work?

I have labeled direction as "Fox" and "the Other Way".

Ever wonder why, in diagrams showing the de Saxe concept and the alleged good things that occur, the drawing only shows the downward side of the piston motion and not the upward side of piston motion?

I firmly believe a piston is putting effort into the crank going down on power stroke and is taking effort from the crank on the upward. So, do we help the piston going down with offset the "Fox" way or do we help the piston going up by offset "the Other Way"?  Whatever we gain by helping the power stroke has to be lost by the upstroke doing all the bad things we claim de Saxe will fix.

I read some fantastic claims from the motorcycle folks now as to how much HP they are getting "because" if offset. I find this to be an ad writers wild effort.

Auto engines use wrist pin offsets to calm down "Piston Slap" when the piston Changes direction thru TDC. there are several reasons for offset to accomplish certain bad things, but  for making HP is not really one of them. Duke told my once upon a time that he used the offset concept to allow more bypass depth while keeping the limits of case with to a minimum. Another use to accomplish other things.

Until I am shown an engine that is making improved hp BECAUSE of offset, and is proven to me, I will continue to be a Doubting Thomas.

Double Deuce


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