Author Topic: Prop and Fuel Combo Advice (Read 4286 times)

David Ruff · « **on:** July 01, 2016, 04:45:44 AM »

A plethora of questions on prop/fuel combos for given airframes. Appreciate suggestions.

Altitude is about 500 feet ASL.

Oriental with OS 25 LA-S power; prop and fuel???

Profile Cardinal with OS 46 LA-S power: prop and fuel???

Have an Enya 60 IIIB with Randy Smith tweaks; suggest an airframe and fuel/prop combo?

badbill · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2016, 09:16:02 AM »

Quote from: David Ruff on July 01, 2016, 04:45:44 AM

A plethora of questions on prop/fuel combos for given airframes. Appreciate suggestions.

Altitude is about 500 feet ASL.

Oriental with OS 25 LA-S power; prop and fuel???

Profile Cardinal with OS 46 LA-S power: prop and fuel???

Have an Enya 60 IIIB with Randy Smith tweaks; suggest an airframe and fuel/prop combo?

On my LA 46 and OS 25, I use the same fuel- http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBAEH Omega control line fuel, with 2oz of castor added per quart.

For the LA 46, mine just loves the APC 12.25 x 3.75 sport. Pulls like a freight train.

For the OS LA 25 ( mine is on a Ringmaster ) it likes a wide blade 9x4 best- Old top flite or BYO.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2016, 09:46:15 AM »

Quote from: David Ruff on July 01, 2016, 04:45:44 AM

A plethora of questions on prop/fuel combos for given airframes. Appreciate suggestions.

Altitude is about 500 feet ASL.

Oriental with OS 25 LA-S power; prop and fuel???

If it is *stock* (see other thread), start with an APC 9-4 and 10% 50/50 fuel like SIG or Powermaster. The first variation to try is a 10-4 APC, and then 9-4 and 10-4 APC with 15% fuel.

Brett

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2016, 09:53:06 AM »

I can't see an 8-4 on a 25LA unless it's seriously choked down -- either a smaller than the standard small venturi, a stock small venturi and an ST or other 4mm diameter needle, or lots and lots of nylon net piled over the venturi. (Deleted 'cause of BadBill's BadTyping).

The 25LA can be toned down with a bigger prop -- for the Oriental you probably want the 9-4. Let me expand: you want a 9-4 APC

Ditto the 46LA -- the 12.25 x 3.75 works well on 500 square-inch planes, while I'm running one on a 700 square-inch, 64 ounce plane with a 10.25x4 where, much to my surprise, it works great.

badbill · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2016, 11:48:59 AM »

Yup the 8 was a dumb thumb typing :-)

RandySmith · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2016, 02:41:07 PM »

Quote from: David Ruff on July 01, 2016, 04:45:44 AM

A plethora of questions on prop/fuel combos for given airframes. Appreciate suggestions.

Altitude is about 500 feet ASL.

Oriental with OS 25 LA-S power; prop and fuel???

Profile Cardinal with OS 46 LA-S power: prop and fuel???

Have an Enya 60 IIIB with Randy Smith tweaks; suggest an airframe and fuel/prop combo?

Brodak or Power Master 10 - 22 will work on all the engines, although you may want to add a couple ounces castor for the big 60

Randy

David Ruff · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2016, 04:53:57 PM »

Thanks, guys. Appreciate the info.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2016, 05:33:53 PM »

Let us know how it goes.

frank mccune · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:12:27 AM »

Hi David:

Come to the club picnic on 4 July to discuss this question with people who fly quite a bit. I am sure that you will hear some opinions. Lol

I have followed Randy's post at the beginning of the Engine Set Up page re. fuel for various engines with no problems. I have used 5-28 castor, 10 -28 castor, 10- 14-14, 5,11-11, and 10-11-11 and I have not seen any differences to any of these mixes in performance. However the10, 11-11 mix appears to run a bit better, easier to needle and more speed?

? Clean up appears to be a wash between the mixes. All of the fuel mixes lead me to believe that electric flight is the way of the future!!!! Perhaps if I ran the engines for many hours on the various mixes, I could make a determination which is best. My latest fad is 5 nitro, 11-11 oil and the remainder alky. It seems to work very well and I do not have to carry two mixes to the field to feed the old and new engines. I too am a Sport/Stunt flyer who has his engines loafing along in the old style 4-2-4 engine run mode. A few of the chaps at the field run their engines in a rich 2 cycle mode. Doing either of this type of engine operation, the engines should last a long time.

One chap was using fuel that had 12 or 14 percent "oil" in it that was purchased at the LHS. He liked it as it was very easy to clean the plane after flying.

I would suggest that you follow Randy's suggestions and use what your are comfortable with when flying.

See you at the club field,

Frank McCune

David Ruff · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:21:53 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on July 02, 2016, 05:12:27 AM

Hi David:

Come to the club picnic on 4 July to discuss this question with people who fly quite a bit. I am sure that you will hear some opinions. Lol

I have followed Randy's post at the beginning of the Engine Set Up page re. fuel for various engines with no problems. I have used 5-28 castor, 10 -28 castor, 10- 14-14, 5,11-11, and 10-11-11 and I have not seen any differences to any of these mixes in performance. However the10, 11-11 mix appears to run a bit better, easier to needle and more speed?? Clean up appears to be a wash between the mixes. All of the fuel mixes lead me to believe that electric flight is the way of the future!!!! Perhaps if I ran the engines for many hours on the various mixes, I could make a determination which is best. My latest fad is 5 nitro, 11-11 oil and the remainder alky. It seems to work very well and I do not have to carry two mixes to the field to feed the old and new engines. I too am a Sport/Stunt flyer who has his engines loafing along in the old style 4-2-4 engine run mode. A few of the chaps at the field run their engines in a rich 2 cycle mode. Doing either of this type of engine operation, the engines should last a long time.

One chap was using fuel that had 12 or 14 percent "oil" in it that was purchased at the LHS. He liked it as it was very easy to clean the plane after flying.

I would suggest that you follow Randy's suggestions and use what your are comfortable with when flying.

See you at the club field,

Frank McCune

Frank. We are planning to come to the picnic. I have Randy building two engines for me now.

big ron · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2016, 07:54:21 AM »

On my profile Cardinal with LA 46 I use a Rev up 12x5 cut down to 11.5, Powermaster GMA 10/22, with a Macs tube control line muffler, enya needle valve assembly and sig long rc plug. I have tried it with all the recommended props and this one works best for me.

RandySmith · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2016, 10:00:55 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on July 02, 2016, 05:12:27 AM

Hi David:

Come to the club picnic on 4 July to discuss this question with people who fly quite a bit. I am sure that you will hear some opinions. Lol

I have followed Randy's post at the beginning of the Engine Set Up page re. fuel for various engines with no problems. I have used 5-28 castor, 10 -28 castor, 10- 14-14, 5,11-11, and 10-11-11 and I have not seen any differences to any of these mixes in performance. However the10, 11-11 mix appears to run a bit better, easier to needle and more speed?? Clean up appears to be a wash between the mixes. All of the fuel mixes lead me to believe that electric flight is the way of the future!!!! Perhaps if I ran the engines for many hours on the various mixes, I could make a determination which is best. My latest fad is 5 nitro, 11-11 oil and the remainder alky. It seems to work very well and I do not have to carry two mixes to the field to feed the old and new engines. I too am a Sport/Stunt flyer who has his engines loafing along in the old style 4-2-4 engine run mode. A few of the chaps at the field run their engines in a rich 2 cycle mode. Doing either of this type of engine operation, the engines should last a long time.

One chap was using fuel that had 12 or 14 percent "oil" in it that was purchased at the LHS. He liked it as it was very easy to clean the plane after flying.

I would suggest that you follow Randy's suggestions and use what your are comfortable with when flying.

See you at the club field,

Frank McCune

Hi Frank none of the 3 engines he asked about need all the formulas you listed, none need 28% castor and ALL will run well on the 1 blend I told him about.
Fox 35s OS 30 35 S and a few others like McCoys need 25 to 28% oil, but are best with a blend of oil, they will last far longer that way. 14% oil fuel will wipe the rod out of a fox and OS 35S in 1 run, I have seen this done several times...clean-up should NEVER be a reason to run a certain fuel
The article pinned at the top discuses this

Randy

Brett Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2016, 12:13:47 PM »

Quote from: RandySmith on July 02, 2016, 10:00:55 AM

Hi Frank none of the 3 engines he asked about need all the formulas you listed, none need 28% castor and ALL will run well on the 1 blend I told him about.
Fox 35s OS 30 35 S and a few others like McCoys need 25 to 28% oil, but are best with a blend of oil, they will last far longer that way. 14% oil fuel will wipe the rod out of a fox and OS 35S in 1 run, I have seen this done several times...clean-up should NEVER be a reason to run a certain fuel

I would echo Randy's comments, and go a bit further. The two OS's will lose power right away on the heavy oil, and then slowly degenerate further in power just like the are getting worn out over the course of a few hundred flights. If that happens, you can crock pot the cylinder/piston and it will restore the power. This even happens on large conventional stunt engines like the PA/RO-Jett. You can also run the mix Randy recommends, and that will clean a bit of the varnish and the engine will recover.

You should really reserve the 28% all-castor for engines that require it like the McCoy/Fox/OS baffle piston/other steam technology era iron-liner engines and keep it out of the ABC engines entirely.

I don't know about the Enya. If it's an ABC/AAC engine (probably is if it is new) it wants Randy's recommendation, and if it's an old iron-liner engine, then use the high-castor fuel. The older Enya baffle-piston/iron liner engines have more or less the same technology as a Fox, just much better workmanship and tighter fits.

5% will usually work but 10% substantially increases the power and improves the handling qualities on the OS ABC engines. You can set the engine up to recover some of the power OR handling qualities on 5% but usually not both at once. The 25LA in particular doesn't like 5% and it's much harder to needle with that compared to 10 or 15%. To make it needle easier, you would need a slightly smaller venturi and then you lose even more power.

Brett

David Ruff · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2016, 03:53:29 PM »

I generally will take Randy's advice.

On a different note, did anybody ever use ultrasonic cleaning on an engine?

Steve Thomas · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:12:13 PM »

Quote

I don't know about the Enya. If it's an ABC/AAC engine (probably is if it is new) it wants Randy's recommendation, and if it's an old iron-liner engine, then use the high-castor fuel. The older Enya baffle-piston/iron liner engines have more or less the same technology as a Fox, just much better workmanship and tighter fits.

The 60-IIIB is ringed, so something like 5/11/11 or 10/11/11 ought to work fine.

Enya always recommended 20% castor, even in their old-style iron/steel engines, and they've got a reputation for never wearing out. I've heard of a few people having poor runs on things like old 35s - turned out they were using 28% oil "because it's like a Fox" (it isn't). Once the oil content was dropped to something more like the manufacturer's recommendation, they ran fine. I've been running a 35-III on 10/11/11, and it seems quite happy with that.

RandySmith · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:24:51 PM »

Quote from: Steve Thomas on July 02, 2016, 05:12:13 PM

The 60-IIIB is ringed, so something like 5/11/11 or 10/11/11 ought to work fine.

Enya always recommended 20% castor, even in their old-style iron/steel engines, and they've got a reputation for never wearing out. I've heard of a few people having poor runs on things like old 35s - turned out they were using 28% oil "because it's like a Fox" (it isn't). Once the oil content was dropped to something more like the manufacturer's recommendation, they ran fine. I've been running a 35-III on 10/11/11, and it seems quite happy with that.

Actually the 25 to 28 % oil with part synth. works great in an Old Style 35S and yes it is like a FOX, it has a very small front case bushing, a soft rod that is unbushed top and bottom, and a piston that is easy to wear the boss out...wrist pin hole... so its much closer to a FOX than an ENYA

Regards
Randy

Steve Thomas · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:46:45 PM »

Sorry Randy, maybe I wasn't clear - I meant old Enya 35s, not OS. Of course you're quite right about the OS 35S, and I always use at least 25% in them.

frank mccune · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2016, 06:16:52 PM »

Hi David:

I have used an ultrasonic cleaner in an attempt to clean engines. I was not impressed at the amount of cleaning that was done. it removed the loose dirt but did nothing to remove burned on oil etc.

I have only used a detergent and water and have avoided the stronger solvents. Some people use flammable liquids in their UC but I have not done so for two reasons: There may be a fire hazard with flammable liquids and I read where only water gives the correct amount of scrubbing bubbles that the UC needs to remove bad things. Is this true? I have no idea but I clean other things that are dirty with the UC, detergent and water. Thus far, the only things that respond well to the UC are the cutting heads for my electric razor and cartridge cases.

If you have one, try it on different items and let us know what works.

CU Monday,

Frank

David Ruff · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2016, 05:39:54 AM »

Quote from: frank mccune on July 02, 2016, 06:16:52 PM

Hi David:

I have used an ultrasonic cleaner in an attempt to clean engines. I was not impressed at the amount of cleaning that was done. it removed the loose dirt but did nothing to remove burned on oil etc.

I have only used a detergent and water and have avoided the stronger solvents. Some people use flammable liquids in their UC but I have not done so for two reasons: There may be a fire hazard with flammable liquids and I read where only water gives the correct amount of scrubbing bubbles that the UC needs to remove bad things. Is this true? I have no idea but I clean other things that are dirty with the UC, detergent and water. Thus far, the only things that respond well to the UC are the cutting heads for my electric razor and cartridge cases.

If you have one, try it on different items and let us know what works.

CU Monday,

Frank

Frank...I wondered about the UC because we use one to clean firearms at the shop. It works pretty well but we have to be careful with aluminum alloys. Too much time in the UC and it eats the metal. Not good.

frank mccune · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2016, 07:13:58 PM »

Hi David:

I too have used the UC for cleaning firearm parts. Trigger groups respond very well to the UC without having to dismantle them. Also many other small parts from old guns clean up very well in the UC.

Be well,

Frank