Author Topic: Castor Oil (Read 2629 times)

Robin_Holden · « **on:** July 09, 2022, 12:41:02 AM »

Good morning gentlemen from Spofforth village in North Yorkshire , England.

A ‘castor oil’ question for the experts.

Can I use ANY castor oil to increase the percentage of lube’ in my fuel ?
I bought some off the internet. Not sure it will be suitable.

Any contributions much appreciated.

Robin.

Motorman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2022, 09:05:08 AM »

There are products labeled castor oil that have other chemicals in the mix. These sometimes won't mix well with the synthetic oil in your fuel.

If you're adding pure castor, pressed from the castor bean, it will mix just fine.

Motorman

Akihiro Danjo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2022, 03:23:43 AM »

Another option is KLOTZ BeNOL.

Aki

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2022, 07:00:08 PM »

I'd try the eBay stuff in a small sample of fuel to see if it mixes ok. Be careful with % ratios, of course. I would feel comfortable using medicinal castor for the typical R/C fuel if yours is anything like what we get. It might tend to clog up a ringed engine or a tight ABC/AAC engine, but all that synthetic oil should keep it pretty clean. Benol would be better. Motorcycle and Go-Kart shops should have some options, and they might even have some good advise...or not.

Steve

Perry Rose · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2022, 06:40:46 PM »

There is a company called "Bulk Apothecary" that sells all kinds of oils. I have used their castor for years with perfect results. Last time I looked the price was $17.00/gallon. Very clean, no fibers. Shipping for a gallon is high so I get 5 gallons at a time. It's cost effective that way.
I just checked the web site and the price has gone up a bit. Now it's $30.something a gallon. Country of origin is India.

BillP · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2022, 12:19:43 PM »

Guys on an rc site a few yrs ago were using first pressed castor and having no problems. That would be the most impure castor. If memory is right there are three presses for the purest. The only thing I would be cautious of on any castor is if it was synthetically processed. That castor showed tiny white flakes which plugged up the NVA quickly. I think it was Red Max fuel that had this issue back in the 1990s when they started using synthetically processed castor. You could strain it and the next day the flakes would be back. You might try mixing a small batch of the ebay castor, let it sit a few days and see if flakes appear. They are small but definitely visible with the naked eye. Otherwise I'd mix a small batch and fly it. If it starts giving you problems change castor brands.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2022, 11:06:08 AM »

Castor oil flakes are an indication that the castor is separating from the fuel. Fox Blast used to do that in cool weather. One year at the Sand Point NAS Regionals (about 1965/6), I had to take my pint can into the men's loo in the control tower and run hot water on the can to warm it up. I'd carry it back out to the speed circle inside my coat. Memorial Day weekend in Seattle isn't always nice and warm...or 4th of July, for that matter.

I don't recall why I was using BLAST instead of K&B Speed Fuel, but I think maybe the K&B SF got flakes in it also. Shortly after, I started mixing my own, using UCON synthetic oil, and never had the problem again.

Steve

Motorman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2022, 11:30:48 AM »

The first castor pressing is the least acidic. In Rossi engine manuals they recommend the first pressing. Haven't heard of it being impure. I've seen castor get flakes when it's been stored too cold. I bring the bottle upstairs in the winter. Bulk Apothecary is good, been through several gallons of their castor.

Motorman

BillP · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2022, 02:42:39 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on July 22, 2022, 11:30:48 AM

The first castor pressing is the least acidic. In Rossi engine manuals they recommend the first pressing. Haven't heard of it being impure. I've seen castor get flakes when it's been stored too cold. I bring the bottle upstairs in the winter. Bulk Apothecary is good, been through several gallons of their castor.

Motorman

The flakes I posted about couldn't be removed by heating. The fuel maker's web site posted that the flakes were a bi-product of synthetic processing. Heating made no difference. They eventually stopped using that type castor. By that time the entire group I flew with changed brands.

Each pressing takes more stuff out...3rd pressing is the most refined. 1st is the least refined.

Reptoid · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2022, 03:38:57 PM »

Castor is only "pressed" once. There is no 2nd and third pressing. The best castor for engines and for health products is "Cold Pressed" castor. Cold pressed means the beans are pressed slowly and the temperature remains below 122 degrees. The second method is "Expeller pressed" and it is rapidly "pressed by a rotary type expeller press and that causes the temperature to exceed 122 degrees which causes the molecular structure of the Castor to change slightly. The third method is "Chemical extraction" and this uses chemicals to get the oil out of the beans.
First or "cold" pressing produces the purest castor but is the most expensive process. Expeller pressed is the next purest and costs less. Chemical is the fastest and cheapest way but it leaves contaminants in the castor, like benzene, and Hexane. oddly, the more you refine castor, the worse it becomes as a lubricant. That's because the quality that makes castor a great lubricant for two stroke high temperature protection is that the hotter it gets, the longer it's molecules become, making it increase in viscosity, rather than decrease like almost all other oils.

Motorman · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2022, 03:51:18 PM »

Interesting, the Bulk Apothecary is expeller pressed. I wonder if this burns cleaner than cold pressed. Don't know about Sig, says it's AA bakers grade, does that mean you can cook with it?

Motorman

Reptoid · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2022, 08:01:52 PM »

Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/100-Pure-Castor-Oil-Cold-pressed/dp/B097HP7DQ6/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=castor+oil+in+bulk&qid=1659146365&sr=8-5

Mark Mc · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2022, 05:23:52 PM »

So, what would everyone choose? A gallon of the cold pressed castor at $36 plus shipping, or Benol at $55 shipped?

Mark

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2022, 05:53:18 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on July 29, 2022, 03:51:18 PM

Interesting, the Bulk Apothecary is expeller pressed. I wonder if this burns cleaner than cold pressed. Don't know about Sig, says it's AA bakers grade, does that mean you can cook with it?

Motorman

Yes. Look it up. They sell food grade castor oil in the baking department at grocery stores.. Lots of old world recipes that call for castor oil. It's also about the same as the stuff Grandma took for constipation. This has all been covered about 10 times in the history of this forum.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Reptoid · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2022, 10:50:45 PM »

Quote from: Mark Mc on July 30, 2022, 05:23:52 PM

So, what would everyone choose? A gallon of the cold pressed castor at $36 plus shipping, or Benol at $55 shipped?

Mark

Maybe actually Click on the link and read it next time; FREE SHIPPING

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2022, 02:17:59 AM »

My choise would be Maxima 927 castor. It’s easily available and of constant quality, unlike the oils of unknown origin.
It’s not the cheapest, but nothing catastrophic. And you can manage with a smaller oil %, too.
Now, someone will propably chime in and say that it’s not really a pure castor oil but who cares, unless you fly categories where rules require 1st pressing castor or, if you use and old engine that has allready been ruined with carbon buildup.
I’d say it’s a perfect replacement for castor oil, plus it works better than it. L

BillP · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2022, 12:02:56 PM »

Quote from: Reptoid on July 29, 2022, 03:38:57 PM

Castor is only "pressed" once. There is no 2nd and third pressing. The best castor for engines and for health products is "Cold Pressed" castor. Cold pressed means the beans are pressed slowly and the temperature remains below 122 degrees. The second method is "Expeller pressed" and it is rapidly "pressed by a rotary type expeller press and that causes the temperature to exceed 122 degrees which causes the molecular structure of the Castor to change slightly. The third method is "Chemical extraction" and this uses chemicals to get the oil out of the beans.
First or "cold" pressing produces the purest castor but is the most expensive process. Expeller pressed is the next purest and costs less. Chemical is the fastest and cheapest way but it leaves contaminants in the castor, like benzene, and Hexane. oddly, the more you refine castor, the worse it becomes as a lubricant. That's because the quality that makes castor a great lubricant for two stroke high temperature protection is that the hotter it gets, the longer it's molecules become, making it increase in viscosity, rather than decrease like almost all other oils.

Well yeah Don, kinda sorta. I had to go do some memory research to check myself. So...the bean is pressed more than once depending on purity...which is rated in four categories. "Crude" (1st press) is the lowest purity and "medical" the highest...as stated on the (NCOA) Nat Castor Oil Assoc and the National Library of Medicine web sites. There are other web sites with more specific info which I suppose has morphed the process generally into 1,2 & 3 pressings...which further remove chems and impurities. Some (not all) additional extraction processes include pressing so that may be a clarification on the number of pressings.

Motorman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2022, 12:23:17 PM »

LOL, same 'ol Stunt hangar.

Mark Mc · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2022, 03:45:27 PM »

Quote from: Reptoid on July 30, 2022, 10:50:45 PM

Maybe actually Click on the link and read it next time; FREE SHIPPING

My apologies.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2022, 01:53:44 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on July 31, 2022, 02:17:59 AM

My choise would be Maxima 927 castor. It’s easily available and of constant quality, unlike the oils of unknown origin.
It’s not the cheapest, but nothing catastrophic. And you can manage with a smaller oil %, too.
Now, someone will propably chime in and say that it’s not really a pure castor oil but who cares, unless you fly categories where rules require 1st pressing castor or, if you use and old engine that has allready been ruined with carbon buildup.
I’d say it’s a perfect replacement for castor oil, plus it works better than it. L

I looked for Maxima 927 castor oil online. $28USD per litre out of Southern California. Seems expensive to me, when compared to Benol at $55/gallon IIRC. Not sure where they make it, but semi-interested in knowing. If I wanted to buy some, I'd probably ask at our local Go-Kart shop. There's a BBQ place next door.

Steve

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2022, 07:38:03 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on August 01, 2022, 01:53:44 PM

I looked for Maxima 927 castor oil online. $28USD per litre out of Southern California. Seems expensive to me, when compared to Benol at $55/gallon IIRC. Not sure where they make it, but semi-interested in knowing. If I wanted to buy some, I'd probably ask at our local Go-Kart shop. There's a BBQ place next door. Steve

There are several national chains of motorcycle sup[ply stores across the country and those plus almost any dealer will carry Maxima products and will have it on the shelf. We have the chain "Cycle Gear" represented here in the St. Louis area and I know all the other brand dealers here carry the Maxima line of products.

Another possible source is the pest control department of the hardware store. Mole repellants are usually castor based and one product I checked out was called "MoleGo" or something like that. I looked at the ingredients and all it said was "100% castor oil." If I needed it I would probably try it.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Motorman · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2022, 07:16:09 AM »

I was once told the castor we use is "de-gummed" where medical grade or gopher grade may not be?

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2022, 11:41:29 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 02, 2022, 07:16:09 AM

I was once told the castor we use is "de-gummed" where medical grade or gopher grade may not be?

Check out the search function and find out. As I said before, this has been covered in depth many times before and it's in the forums somewhere.

Reptoid · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2022, 02:20:21 PM »

If you're wondering what exactly is Maxima 927 "Castor". Attached is a pdf. of the spec sheet from Maxima. Note that it is slightly above 50% castor, the remainder being Ester based synthetics and 10-20% "additives". It also has a lower viscosity index than straight castor. It, like many synthetics and racing castor's contains additives to make it mix with gasoline. We do not need those additives for mixing with Methanol/nitro. Part of those additives also assist with Ester based synthetics mixing with Methanol. Almost all other synthetics used in modeling and recommended for use with Methanol utilize PAG oils which readily mix with methanol/nitro.

As for BillP's comments about 2nd and third "pressings" of Castor. Despite whatever you read Bill; The "Cold Pressing" process is the process of "pressing" the beans to squeeze the oil out of them. It does not refine the oil. The oil after first cold pressing is the pure unadulterated castor from the natural bean.