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Author Topic: Brodak .40 NVA  (Read 2238 times)

Offline Bart Modica

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Brodak .40 NVA
« on: March 20, 2011, 08:16:28 PM »
I'm using a Brodak .40 in a Nobler ARF....it would help the fuel line and uniflow plumbing if I swapped the needle valve assembly 180 degrees. Will  this affect performance?
Any suggestions on prop size ?

Thanks

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 12:04:06 AM »
                       Bart, are you suggesting to turn the needle around because the engine is in the inverted position in the Nobler? If so, this won't be a problem at all assuming you put it back into the case the same way. The hole in the spray bar should point down the venturi correctly. That assembly has one hole on it so it makes it slightly difficult to see how its orientated. Take note how the hole is on the spray bar by looking at the flats on the hex nut and reinsert from the other side. I like the Brodak needle but be sure to see that the needles is closing all the way. I had a few that were real tight. This required me to remove the locknut and clean out any burrs where the spraybar  is split for the collet. I oiled the needle and worked it in several times to make sure it was closing down enough. Don't jam the needle closed as this could do damage.  My son flies his Brodak.40 using a APC 10x5. We never had to try another prop as this prop seems to be perfect with his plane. I know others have used the APC 10.5x4.5. That prop can be a little harder to locate than the 10x5. I've never run my engine using the stock muffler. I'm not sure if that is why my runs with the 10x5 have been so successful. I own an earlier version Brodak.40. The later versions so I'm told make more power. My engine though makes plenty of power with plenty to spare.   The engine seems to like to turn up a bit so I wouldn't suggest loading the engine with heavy pitched props. Fuels can be another factor here. I feed ours Powermaster 50/50 in the 5% brew. Ken
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:50:20 AM by kenneth cook »

Offline Joe Messinger

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2011, 01:34:59 AM »
On engines mounted inverted or upright (side exhaust), I always installed the NVA so that the intake side is on the same side of the engine as the exhaust and muffler.  Made sense to prevent burning your fingers on the hot muffler while adjusting the needle.  However, a friend who is an expert c/l pilot and builder informed me that the intake side of the NVA should be on the outboard side of the plane.  He said that equated to better fuel flow/draw due to centrifugal force.  So, that means on inverted engines, the needle adjustment is inboard (above the muffler) and the intake, outboard.  On profiles with side mounted engines it doesn't matter.  I can't say that I've experienced a noticable difference by doing this but my friend knows a great deal more about such things than I.

Joe
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Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 08:27:02 AM »
  I see that you are concerened with the orientation of the hole in the spraybar after turning it to the other side, what I have found that works to mark, with a notch in the spraybar where the hole is, then you can see where it is when in the case.
  Hope that this helps, and as to awitching to the other side that is what I did in my ARF Nobler, keeps from burning my fingers when setting the needle...
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Offline sleepy gomez

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 11:08:03 AM »
With the NVA removed I file a slight notch in the hex opposite the hole.   I can easily tell that the hole is opposite the notch from outside the engine. 

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 12:47:49 PM »
That will work sometimes, BUT... many times the run is not the same and the motor will not cycle as it did with the NVA in the other direction if using on a built up plane, Profiles are OK

Randy

Offline Bart Modica

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
Thanks for all the information

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 08:56:55 PM »
Let me add that the Brodak runs real well if you place the hole in the spraybar at the 3 or 9 'o clock position rather than straight down at 6 'o clock. Just something to try if it's not running the way you want.
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Offline Olli-Matti

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2019, 02:09:18 PM »
I'll revive an old thread as the topic is exactly what my question is concerning. I got a brodak .40 from ebay lately and don't know much about the history of the engine. It seems quite clean and new to my eye and so I installed it on my new vector 40. Engine gave trouble and was hard to get running infact I did try it couple of times on the airframe and then decided to pull it from the airplane and mount it on the bench. I did have time to try it today on the bench and got it starting easily off of a prime but did only get a second or two of running. Opened the needle gradually and at the 4,5 turns out the engine started running.

I measured 12000 rpms with apc 10.5x4.5 prop and engine got quite hot after a 2min run wot. Engine has also a massive compression to begin with. When hot after a run its much better, this got me thinking that it might need quite a bit of running in still. What are the experts thoughts on this? I was running it with a fuel mixture I had in hand that is 24% of oil of which 75% is ricine oil and 25% synthetic oil and a total of 14% nitro.

NVA has two holes and they are facing sideways compared to venturi throat .

When I did turn the needle in at 4,25 turns out it did degrease rpms significantly as running too lean and when turning furthermore out it seemed to have no effect at all at the rpm or the behaviour of the engine.

regards
Ollie

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2019, 07:35:46 PM »
You are running it way too lean. With that prop RPM should be between 10,200 -10,600 rpm.  12,000 is more like the RPM you would get with an LA 25 and a 9-4 prop. No wonder it is overheating. Wrong fuel also. Powermaster 10/22 works well however I spike mine with an additional 2 ounces per gallon of castor oil. 
Recently I have switched to a one to one blend of Powermaster 10/22 GMA blend and 10/29 GMA fuel (thanks for the suggestion Mark and Fred). With that blend I get  a steady, strong run. The point is the fuel you area using has too much synthetic and not enough castor.  Other's mileage may vary but I stand by these recommendations based on recent, real world observations and experiments. For the record, 10/29 is no longer available from Powermaster however 10/22 is, as is fuel grade castor oil. And yes, it will need quite a bit of running in. Brodaks are like that. 8)
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Offline Olli-Matti

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2019, 01:09:48 AM »
Has there been different sized venturis? As mine seems quite big to my eye. Haven’t measured though.

It sure ran lean but the problem was that the needle was allready almost dropping out so it seems that the NVA holes can’t supply enough fuel.

Fuel I used had 24% oil and of that oil 3/4 were castor and 1/4 synthetic. A bit much nitro though. I will try with 5% nitro fuel and see if it behaves different. That fuel is just mainly synthetic oil..

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2019, 10:38:09 AM »
Stock venturi is large, about .305". Still, it can work and many fliers use it as is.  Mine are downsized to around .285" either by replacing it with a Jim Lee venturi (see vendors section) or drilling out a venturi from a Brodak .25.  Stock NV will work fine, a Randy Smith NV will work better.  Stock spray bars sometimes have a burr on them which can prevent them from closing all the way. Check to see if your NV is closing all the way by blowing through the spray bar while closing the needle. If  it doesn't stop the airflow, clean up the burr  and try again, an easy fix.
Previous prop recommendation is good I prefer the Billy Clubman 10.5 x 5 prop. I would stay with your higher castor oil fuel despite the higher nitro content. As I posted earlier, Brodak 40's like more castor especially when they are not broken in. I'm out. 
Pete Cunha
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Offline Olli-Matti

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Re: Brodak .40 NVA
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2019, 11:41:13 AM »
Thank you for your comments. I did get it running around 10600 on the rich side by running needle 5 turns open with fuel that contains 9% nitro 6% castor and 16% synthetic oil.

Today I did take the NVA out and inspected it. There are two 0.8mm holes drilled off center. I also noticed that needle does not let any air through until approximately 2 turns open. At 4 to 4,5 turns open is probably the normal range with this one. There were also some crap inside that I cleaned out.

Will try next with fuel that I just mixed. It contains 4% nitro, 7% synth oil and 15% castor oil.

Regards
Ollie


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