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Author Topic: Best Way to Lift a Liner  (Read 933 times)

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Best Way to Lift a Liner
« on: February 15, 2023, 06:35:47 AM »
The worst ways to lift a liner:  Pliers on the top flange or, even worse, a screwdriver in the exhaust port.

More seriously, I'd first try pressing on the bottom with finger pressure.  If that didn't work, I'd heat the case in an oven and try again, using oven gloves.  Finally, I'd mount a prop and insert a piece of soft wood between the piston and liner and rotate the crankshaft with the whole engine hot, hoping not to create a burr on the liner.

Your technique?  Thoughts?

thanks,

Peter

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2023, 07:32:45 AM »
   Pretty much what you have posted. I would just add that on a really crusty old engine, castor oil residue will have the liner glued to the case, so crock potting is necessary on some to heat the case and dissolve the old, dried and baked on castor residue.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2023, 08:08:50 AM »
Thanks for checking my technique, Dan.

My particular project is to swap out a Fox 35 40th anniversary case.  It's crusty.  My green antifreeze crock pot setup works fine, so I may use the crock pot early on.  I do find that a lot of old engines also have stuck wrist pins, which isn't always obvious when flipping them over.  For this project, I hope to avoid dealing with Fox .35 circlips.

I know options on this topic vary, but I'm in favor of removing any varnish via crock pot / soft brush.  I don't subscribe to the theory that compression will reduce if clean.

Peter

Offline Lauri Malila

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2023, 08:20:55 AM »
Just remove the 8 screws😂
L

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2023, 05:55:24 PM »
With a recalitrant . ( Means Mega STUCK ) one , I got a gutter washer / penny washer .
ACTUALLY likely a Ford Washer , that slotted into the rear case , on a S Tigre 60 .
And a bolt and a nut .
The Washer was the same O.D. or suchlike to the liner .
THEN with a piece of tube - I.D. to fit over Liner Flange O.D. , Top ., say 3/4 deep - to give a bit of ' lift ' before it all ends .Or a Socket .

So the contraptions assembled - The CASE HEATED - and wind away .



A vague resemblance to these , with the bits swapped around , and a washer . Maybe off a shock absorber . not a cheap thin nasty one , Dosnt want to deform .

Get it ALL SQUARE & ALIGNED , so as it dosnt jam with side forces .

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2023, 11:28:50 PM »
Use a puller. I make mine using different size rubber stoppers. Here is one being used on a Fox .35. On this engine, the piston was frozen pretty high up in the sleeve, so much of the puller was exposed (not fully engaged). With "chocolate Foxes" or other engines that have heavy castor buildup inside, cooking them in antifreeze is essential--if they have been allowed to sit. On more reasonable cases you can try simple heat first and maybe get it to come out. But don't forget that the wrist pin joint has to be free also, or else you are still unable to disassemble things.

For control, it is easiest to install the puller in the chuck of a drill press. On easy pulls, lock the quill and just keep the heat gun working on the case and use gloved hands to pull straight down. On harder pulls, add heat (after crockpotting as long as it takes) and clamp the engine lugs down to the table. Then use the quill to apply the force.

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2023, 11:52:07 AM »
Unles it's an aluminum piston, a used (copper) glow plug washer on the piston face, trapped in a sleeve port,  can apply pressure without damaging sleeve or piston. The other steps to loosen the 'bond' certainly help, too.

Once 'budged' the rest of the job is almost always  easier.
\BEST\LOU

Online Istvan Travnik

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2023, 05:25:04 PM »
My method is:
1. Remove cylinderhead and rear cover
2. Put the engine into deepfrozing part of refrigerator, for 0,5  -  1 hours
3. Prepare the biggest buthane torch (Fill up, etc.) Prepare your asbestos or oven gloves and a piece of hardwood
4. Take the engine and heat up quickly, around the cooling fins
5. Push up the bottom part of liner with the wooden stick...
Istvan

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2023, 06:10:40 PM »
Some are more stuck than others .


Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2023, 08:26:29 PM »
This example is the K&B .61 from the Bargain Barrel that I showed in a different thread. It shows what happens when someone jams a metal object into the exhaust port and starts using it like he was Archimedes with good place to stand. The edge of the port in the liner was slightly mushroomed and there's no good way to grind it back flush in situ so that the liner will come out properly. That means that the bulged edge must be dragged out of the case, which of course, causes more damage. This damage must then be reworked so that the sleeve can be reinstalled without distortion. And of course, the sleeve has to have the burrs stoned off first.

I always have concerns about putting sticks or frangible copper pads or whatnot thru the exhaust ports to try to "jack up" the liner. Sure it can be done. Successfully with engines with small interference fits and good heating. Clean engines, not crusty relics. But fundamentally it means that you are going to try to twist the crank.  If the engine is really frozen (either with dried, hardened oil or if it has the piston rusted to the liner) those forces can be huge and saying that you're only going to twist just so hard...is pretty uncalibrated. And passing this wisdom on to someone who has not worked on a stubborn engine yet (ie. he has not damaged one yet) leaves them thinking it has to come out that way--so just keep leaning on it. On some engines with the piston seized to the liner, jacking the liner up partway still hasn't solved the disassembly problem. If the following steps will require more cooking, isn't it better to do all that before applying any force?

Trying to "loosen up" an engine that is frozen near BDC or TDC by attaching a prop and perhaps shooting a bit of PB Blaster thru the plug hole before "giving it a try" can put tremendous force on the rod ends. But, I see guys take old engines that they got from a swap meet or in a trade and it's the first thing they try. No heat. No cleaning. The old shampoo ad had it right: "Don't do the damage in the first place."

Dave
« Last Edit: February 16, 2023, 08:49:36 PM by Dave Hull »

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2023, 01:24:20 PM »
Some are more stuck than others .



Whoa...a Holden V-8! Or "Hold On", as appropriate. Looks fairly complete, a plus... LL~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Best Way to Lift a Liner
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2023, 04:57:57 PM »
Perfect for resto....  First you soak in LimeAway, then drop 'er into Evapo-Rust. Then all it needs is new rings. That's why it was relegated to boat anchor duty, for sure....

The Divot


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