News:


  • June 23, 2025, 06:31:59 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Back plate Gaskets  (Read 1112 times)

Offline Peter Nevai

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • C3EL
Back plate Gaskets
« on: May 14, 2011, 07:41:17 PM »
What is good to use when you destroy the paper thin factory jobs. I have used business cards but I am starting to think that has been a mistake. Every thing else is even thicker.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12899
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 07:58:46 PM »
Why don't you like using business cards?

I've seen playing cards suggested, but they're thicker, too.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Helmick

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10265
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 08:14:49 PM »
Manilla envelopes would be alright with me, if oiled or greased before installation. I've usually used postcards, but there's lots of junk mail that looks like it'd work fine...and cheaper! You could also use a bit of a plastic milk jug or old proof of insurance card.  :! Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Peter Nevai

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • C3EL
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 08:40:06 PM »
My questioning of business cards stem from a history of eratic engine runs. Could be the compressability of the material and the potential of shrinkage leading to a loose backplate. Or increasing the crankcase volume too much. The mailla envelope solution sounds like the ticket.  What about RTV    Silicon seal? Anyone use loctite on the back plate screws?
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline sleepy gomez

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 215
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 08:50:36 PM »
Many times I have made gaskets such as backplate gaskets as follows.  I use plain old computer paper.  This paper is thin and keeps the crankcase compression up.   Fix the engine to where it won't move around.  Cut the paper larger than needed.  The next step is best done with a dirty hand, but slightly oiled will do.  Press the paper onto the inside and outside outline of the crankcase.  Also press the paper into the bolt holes.  No, not all the way through just enough to make an outline with your dirty hands.  Remove the paper and lay on a piece of wood.  Now the paper can be cut exactly to shape with a #11 blade.

Offline kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1499
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2011, 08:58:51 PM »
        Peter, I 've been through the same problems as you've been making gaskets and having troublesome issues in doing so. When you get an older engine that has irreplaceable gaskets that's your only alternative. Bob Zambelli shown me in person and has also mentioned this several times on Stunthangar was the use of Permatex. The particular Permatex is the anaerobic Permatex. This product is DESIGNED for aluminum and also for uneven mated surfaces. It was also designed to be taken apart if need be unlike silicone which can be problematic to get off. The anaerobic is solvent resistant and comes in small tubes. They sell a .6ml tube which fits in the field box and will last for several engines. There are hundreds of Permatex products and they're all not designed the same. I've used Ultra high temp silicone in the black and gray and our fuels attacked them both rendering them useless. I've seen the blue work around venturis but the anaerobic works well. It can be purchased in the small tubes for around $5.00. I've seen guys use it immediately after assembly. I let it sit myself I guess I'm just old school. Ken

Offline Peter Nevai

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • C3EL
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2011, 09:56:20 PM »
Kenneth, Are you referrimg to the gooey brown permtex? As I recall that stuff practically welds parts together. Which in this case may not be a bad thing.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1499
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 05:01:18 AM »
        Peter the stuff I'm referring to is nothing like what your explaining. In fact when most use the term Permatex, the product your mentioning or the automotive type silicone is what most people are thinking about. Permatex is just a brand name and they make hundreds of different types. It must say anaerobic on the tube. It's red in color and is jelly like. It actually reminds me of the stuff cake makers use to write your name on a cake as it comes out of the tube in a bead approx 3/32" wide. Its very user friendly and like I stated above its meant for aluminum and alcohol. It has virtually no smell and stays in a wet like substance until the mating part goes on. It doesn't cure like silicone does when exposed to air. I'm not sure how to post a pic on here but if you google anaerobic it will come up. This is quite expensive, but you don't need the $20.00 tube. They sell a little 2 1/2" tube that will go a long way for under $5.00. Try this link http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/anaerobic_gasket_makers/Permatex_Anaerobic_Gasket_Maker_b.htm  This product can be found in just about any major automotive stores as well. I've seen it online for under$4.00. The main problem with an old Fox.35 is when you remove the backplate, the gasket is pretty much going to rip. I've found putting 3 in 1 oil on them prior to removal and heating works to take it apart but this isn't possible at the field. It isn't always success either. This product fulfills its purpose and for what your paying for it its worth the try as it does come off easy when you do need to remove it. I think its a terrific product. Ken

Offline Phil Bare

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 06:23:40 AM »
What is good to use when you destroy the paper thin factory jobs. I have used business cards but I am starting to think that has been a mistake. Every thing else is even thicker.

==========================================
Hi,  I have come up with what I believe is as good a replacement for gaskets as any. In my business, I ship lots of packages by UPS and they supply adhesive backed labels that are about the proper thickness for many paper gaskets on our engines. My method is to clean the crank case surface well and make sure that it is completely dry, peel the lable paper from its backing and place it on the cleaned and dried crankcase surface. Now, you can take a no.11 xacto and cut out the center useing the crank case inner edge as a guide , this gives a very clean and accurate cut and only takes a minute or two. Next, I place the back plate on to the crank case and position it where it belongs and use an awl to punch the screw holes. I then screw the back plate down and trim the remaining paper away and have a nice gasket already in place.  It works well and has the added advantage of being able to add layers very easily if a thicker gasket is required. In my collection of serveral hundred engines, most all of them being older and long out of production, this methode has been a life saver.       Phil                           

Offline Russell Shaffer

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2011, 08:46:20 AM »
Neat idea Phil.  About the Permatex - do not use the old brown gooey stuff.  Read the label and you will see that it cleans up with alcohol.  I had to do a clean up and reseal on an old engine after I tried it. 
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Steve Hines

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 495
Re: Back plate Gaskets
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2011, 08:52:32 AM »
I had the same problem on a old motor, I got a tip for alum duct tape. I have used it for head gaskits and back plates. I had a role on my work van that is used for fiber duct, that is a little thicker than steel duct tape. I used two peaces one on top of the other and then stick it too the surface, and then cut it out with a No 11 blade. You can make it any thickness you want, and it comes off ez if you want to try a different thickness.  Its fast and it works great.

Tags: