Author Topic: Evolution 36 lap speef (Read 1047 times)

Craig Beswick · « **on:** December 30, 2019, 08:11:30 AM »

Hello all,
I need help trying to slow down my lap times. Currently running at 4.2 seconds.
Top Flyte ARF Nobler with Stunthanger Hobby control upgrade.
Evolution 36. With the smallest stock venturi it comes with, I don't know what size it is.
Standard manufacturer engine set up with remote needle valve.
Running tank pressure off the tongue muffler.
APC 11 X 4 prop.
10% nitro with 20% all synthetic oil. As per manufacturers instructions.
63' lines.
The instructions say to set the rpms at a little over 9,000. The last flight it was running a steady 2 stroke at 9,200 at launch.
Any thoughts or suggestion?
Thank you in advance.
Craig

Massimo Rimoldi · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2019, 08:50:33 AM »

you can try less nitro.

Massimo

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2019, 10:09:37 AM »

Try it richer, if it doesn't run away then you're done. Before I used head shims I'd try restricting the intake. I prefer to use nylon mesh (from Joanne's Fabric or a florist shop), but you can do whatever.

You want it to unload enough in flight for speed regulation, but not so much that it runs away. If you restrict it down to the point where it's losing power in the overheads then you've gone too far.

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2019, 10:11:00 AM »

Longer lines will give you slower lap speeds also .

Brad

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2019, 11:45:02 AM »

As mentioned, longer lines, then less prop. Drop down to a 10-4. Are line lengths eye to eye, or handle to model center line? Guys do it both ways but it's the total radius that is important.. try the 10-4 first, then if needed to be slower yet, then go out a foot.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2019, 01:05:45 PM »

My Evo .36’s liked the APC 10.5 x 4.5 props . An O.S. RC nva screwed directly into the Venturi worked better than the stock setup. Cool power 5% made lots of power , run in a wet two stoke it pulled my porky 43 oz Fancherized Twister around with authority. 65’ x .015 Lines c/c . Running out of fuel in the cloverleaf was the end of that combo . Lesson #1 , cold weather takes more fuel .

Brad

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2019, 01:09:39 PM »

Thank you for the replies,

Lines are 63' eye to eye. I have had a Master Airscrew prop in it but didn't seem to make any difference.

The venturi, I have read is, .225 (5.7mm), is this considered small? Average?

I will start with a smaller diameter prop, restricting the intake with mesh and richening the run before I start pulling the head off.
Thank you
Craig

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2019, 02:11:47 PM »

Hey Craig:

I'm pretty sure that when Dan said "less prop" he meant less pitch, not less diameter. In general, going to a smaller prop on a Schnuerle ported engine gets you more power, not less. An 11x4 should be a pretty good choice for that motor, I'd hesitate to go below 10.5 x 4.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2019, 02:27:00 PM »

No, I mean less diameter and suggested the 10-4. This is exactly what we did with a club member's twister that was powered with one. Remember, it's a .36. An 11 inch prop is a lot of extra load.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2019, 04:26:39 PM »

The 11 x 5 prop is the recommended and where I started, moving to 11 x 4 to reduce speed.

I had not thought of moving down in diameter because I did not think it was the right thing to do for the engine. But having re read the instructions apparently 9 x 5 to 11 x 5 is the suggested prop range, though I would have thought 9 was way too small?

I have to buy fuel so I think I will try 5% nitro.

If I go to 67' lines I should pick up .4 of a second, is that right? From 63 to 67, 1 foot equals .1 of a second? Is it 70' handle to centre of fuselage?

Thank you again for the responses
Craig

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2019, 04:35:50 PM »

I am not sure if this will work on the .36 but myself and my fellow pilot reduced the venture on the .60 well below the .225 , like .165 and even smaller and it helped a lot . Make sure to use the correct fuel with all synthetic, they do not like other fuels. I will vouch for the APC 10.5x4.5 prop this also works very well on the Brodak .40 . The smaller venture was done by inserting tubing in the stock venture and really helped the run quality as well as fuel mileage. Easy to do and if you don't glue the tubing insert in and don't like it just remove it. One of my fellow flying partner had several Evo .36 very Strong engine, Fuel, Venture , and props are the key. Not your average .36 for sure. I would not stay locked into the 9,000 rpm but rather adjust for a good setting then , adjust prop pitch , venture for speed etc.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2019, 05:18:43 PM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on December 30, 2019, 04:26:39 PM

The 11 x 5 prop is the recommended and where I started, moving to 11 x 4 to reduce speed.

I had not thought of moving down in diameter because I did not think it was the right thing to do for the engine. But having re read the instructions apparently 9 x 5 to 11 x 5 is the suggested prop range, though I would have thought 9 was way too small?

I have to buy fuel so I think I will try 5% nitro.

If I go to 67' lines I should pick up .4 of a second, is that right? From 63 to 67, 1 foot equals .1 of a second? Is it 70' handle to centre of fuselage?

Thank you again for the responses
Craig

The AMA limit is 70 feet from handle to aircraft center line. That is along way for a Nobler, but I have seen Ringmasters flown out at 65 feet. 67 feet eye to eye will probably put you over the limit. you have between 2 to 3 feet from the lead out eye to the model center line to figure in. 1 foot adds .2 per lap I think. It's a good thing to invest in a 100 foot tape measure if you don't have one to check line lengths. If you go longer lines, check the overall length, and then record that along with the line length eye to eye just for future reference. If those lines turn out too long, and you ewant to use them on another airplane, it's good to know what they are just by looking at the reel.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2019, 05:59:13 PM »

Dan, you are right. I forgot about the lead out length, about 5" and handle with clips 3.5". Centre of fuselage to Wing tip 25.5". So 66' Is the maximum I could really go to. I do have a 25metre tape so will do a check.

I think I need to learn more about needling down but still maintaining a consistent run.

Thanks once again
Craig

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #13 on:** December 30, 2019, 07:25:17 PM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on December 30, 2019, 05:59:13 PM

Dan, you are right. I forgot about the lead out length, about 5" and handle with clips 3.5". Centre of fuselage to Wing tip 25.5". So 66' Is the maximum I could really go to. I do have a 25metre tape so will do a check.

I think I need to learn more about needling down but still maintaining a consistent run.

Thanks once again
Craig

Hi Craig;
The Evo.36 is definitely a different animal. I have had two. The first one was broken in per factory instructions, and was an absolute beast. I pretty much know my way around an engine, but this one would not behave at all, and it made me think it has a porous casting that leaked air in some other than the normal places. I finally drilled out the smallest venturi, put in a OS needle valve assembly and it would needle in that configuration. It was still inconstant so I put it away. Then someone I knew just had to have it and traded me a built Sakitumi with a OS LA.40 in the nose so I traded it away. I got the next one in a Craigslist purchase and did the break in on that and attempted to fly it as was in a Hanger 9 PT-19 I have hanging on the wall for a long time, but in the first few laps the covering on the wing started to come off! I hung it back on the wall until I get a chance to recover the wing. Some people have had great luck with them, but not me! Be patient and make one change at a time. read up all you can on the forums here and sort out what you think may be of help to you. Lots has been written about them, but they quit making them for some reason, in my opinion!!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #14 on:** December 30, 2019, 08:33:48 PM »

Hey Motorman you must be psychic!

I received a, "New", second hand OS LA 25 yesterday!!!

Craig

RandySmith · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2019, 11:31:31 AM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on December 30, 2019, 08:11:30 AM

Hello all,
I need help trying to slow down my lap times. Currently running at 4.2 seconds.
Top Flyte ARF Nobler with Stunthanger Hobby control upgrade.
Evolution 36. With the smallest stock venturi it comes with, I don't know what size it is.
Standard manufacturer engine set up with remote needle valve.
Running tank pressure off the tongue muffler.
APC 11 X 4 prop.
10% nitro with 20% all synthetic oil. As per manufacturers instructions.
63' lines.
The instructions say to set the rpms at a little over 9,000. The last flight it was running a steady 2 stroke at 9,200 at launch.
Any thoughts or suggestion?
Thank you in advance.
Craig

Hi Craig

That is way too much nitro for this time of year, Start with 5% nitro, then run it a little richer if It needs slowing down more. You can also use a filter. or layers of pantyhose over the venturi to drop a little power, make sure you really have a 4 pitch prop, and lastly you can add a head shim, if that is still necessary that you lower the speed

Randy

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2019, 03:14:47 PM »

Hello Randy,
thank you for your input. I think you are right about the pitch. I will talk to the guys at the field about that, a bit beyond me at this stage..

I should have posted I am in Brisbane Australia. My last flying day, last Sunday, was 81•5° and 47% humidity, our summer. I read your 9 step engine guide and will get some 5% fuel. Also look into restricting the venturi.

Thank you
Craig

John Watson · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2020, 12:17:56 PM »

Would a three blade prop have any effect on lap times?

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2020, 02:31:26 PM »

Quote from: John Watson on January 05, 2020, 12:17:56 PM

Would a three blade prop have any effect on lap times?

Not necessarily. Depends on diameter and pitch also. Can have an effect on line tension and "feel" while doing the maneuvers. One of those things where you have to try it to see what the results are.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2020, 04:42:51 PM »

Hello all,
I thought I should update what happened yesterday.

Started out with a 10 x 4 prop with the last of my 10% Nitro fuel. I ran it way too rich, as it turned out, no line tension and a disaster really.

Next flight with 5% nitro fuel and leaned out a bit. Better tension but not enough for a pattern. I didn't have a 10 x 5 prop with me, yes stupid I know, but then flew with a 10 x 6. Much better!

Good line tension but a little fast. I think with a 10 x 5 I may be good to go. Still adjusting the needle a little but the lower diameter prop and the suggestions of 5% Nitro seem to have done the trick. So thank you all.

I just need to play with the tank position a bit more and then it should be full steam ahead.
Many thanks to all.
Craig

Mike Greb · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2020, 07:06:19 AM »

I had my evo36 running about 3.3 seconds per lap on 60 ft lines.

RandySmith · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2020, 02:36:00 PM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on January 05, 2020, 04:42:51 PM

Hello all,
I thought I should update what happened yesterday.

Started out with a 10 x 4 prop with the last of my 10% Nitro fuel. I ran it way too rich, as it turned out, no line tension and a disaster really.

Next flight with 5% nitro fuel and leaned out a bit. Better tension but not enough for a pattern. I didn't have a 10 x 5 prop with me, yes stupid I know, but then flew with a 10 x 6. Much better!

Good line tension but a little fast. I think with a 10 x 5 I may be good to go. Still adjusting the needle a little but the lower diameter prop and the suggestions of 5% Nitro seem to have done the trick. So thank you all.

I just need to play with the tank position a bit more and then it should be full steam ahead.
Many thanks to all.
Craig

Craig so many people use that engine with a 11 x 4.5 Cyclone prop, You may want to try this if you have access to one, You can also mix the fuel 1/2 1/2 to get 7.5% nitro, so that is a tuning tool also

Randy