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Author Topic: Whipsaw  (Read 4302 times)

Offline dennis lipsett

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Whipsaw
« on: August 17, 2018, 04:01:03 PM »
I received a video from Ken Cook . Shawn is flying the Super Whipsaw that came into his possession awhile ago. I had built it from Pat Kings kit. it is powered with a Fox 15BB with a 7/5/6?prop.I hope he uses some of those Rev up 7/6 in his stash.
It isn't seen too often and this is probably the only video ever of the design flying.
Keep in mind that this was originally a 35 sized lead sled that flew more like a duck with a hernia than a viable combat ship as far as maneuverability is concerned. With todays 15 sized engines it would be interesting against some of the older designs with period power.
Vintage combat models are more fun than should allowed to be legal.



With only 200 sq/in of wing area it really was nothing more than an overgrown 1/2A

Dennis

Offline mike londke

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 07:12:49 PM »
Very cool. Thx for sharing.
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 11:56:18 AM »
Mr Dennis,

Any chance you might have patterns from the kit? This looks like a good step up from my Cox .049 models.

TIA,

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 12:56:39 PM »
Mr Dennis,

Any chance you might have patterns from the kit? This looks like a good step up from my Cox .049 models.

TIA,

Jim,

Pat King has the plans and he will supply a complete plan with a parts sheet. He sends you a PDF file  for $5.00 that you can take and have a set of plans and parts printed. check his site in the vendors section.
The wing mounted tank is my doing as the original had almost no room for anything. The design was updated since that model was built and the wing is stronger and easier to frame up. Pressurized fuel system is recommended and easy to do but no room for a bladder in the wing. I would't go over a 15 as larger motors will only degrade its flying capabilities. It is small and light enough that a pressurized LA 15 would be good. I've wondered what it would do with modern Eastern European 15's on it.

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 10:57:16 AM »
Funny on the timing of this thread. I opened an old Combat kit and here is the advertisement in the box!

Neat!!!
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 11:09:41 AM »
I had both of the Whipsaw kits and the Typhoon. Always liked Enterprise kits better than Scientific models.
I was always fascinated by Paul Del Gatto's work. I believe that he was a major designer for Enterprise  because so many of the kits produced were designed by him.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 05:49:02 PM »
I had one of these when I was a kid.  Funny that I remember building it but I can't for the life of me remember ever flying it.  I think it got lost in a move.  What I do remember was the die cutting was so bad that nothing fit and the wood was so hard that it weighed a ton.  It was somewhere around 1957 so it had to have been the regular Whipsaw.  $1.95?

Ken
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 08:12:04 PM »
                I have a Ambroid Whipsaw ( Small one ). The wood is heavy, this thing is built rugged. There's a internal piece of ply in the root area of the wing unlike anything I have seen before. The leading edges and trailing edges are very heavy for such a small plane. My dad built this plane somewhere around 68-69. I flew the plane with a MAX .10 on it and DESTROYED it. The problem was the short nose and the wing root which doesn't allow for a tank. Not knowing any better I placed the tank directly on the wing, set it off singing away and pulled it inverted after a few laps. It just shut off and went in upside down. I was flying in a parking lot. Needless to say my dad wasn't impressed and made me fix it. I never flew it after that and it's been hanging for years. Now that I'm more knowledgeable on how to deal with this, I want to give it a go once again. I still have the Ambroid Eagle decal in the box, it appears like it would actually work still.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 10:35:58 PM »
                I have a Ambroid Whipsaw ( Small one ). The wood is heavy, this thing is built rugged. There's a internal piece of ply in the root area of the wing unlike anything I have seen before. The leading edges and trailing edges are very heavy for such a small plane. My dad built this plane somewhere around 68-69. I flew the plane with a MAX .10 on it and DESTROYED it. The problem was the short nose and the wing root which doesn't allow for a tank. Not knowing any better I placed the tank directly on the wing, set it off singing away and pulled it inverted after a few laps. It just shut off and went in upside down. I was flying in a parking lot. Needless to say my dad wasn't impressed and made me fix it. I never flew it after that and it's been hanging for years. Now that I'm more knowledgeable on how to deal with this, I want to give it a go once again. I still have the Ambroid Eagle decal in the box, it appears like it would actually work still.


Ken,

If I remember a conversation from quite awhile ago you had the Ambroid kit. I also think that Ken  Culbertson had one of them also. They were God awful kits and I'm sure that there are quite a few that could tell tales of really heavy Don Still Stuka stunt and Ares from Ambroid also.
My memories of Enterprise kits was that the wood was decent and the parts were decently die cut. When Ambroid got the dies I can only guess what shape they were in and they cheapened the kits a whole lot.
The $1.95 kit was interesting as it really was a 1/2A size but I dutifully put a Fox 15 Rocket on it. No tank in the world would fit on it and give you more than 3 laps so I used a pacifier for a tank in a tube over the wing and that worked pretty well. Of course the Rocket 15 at $6.95 was a real waste of hard earned cash and just couldn't take Franny's this is it in it very long. It was exciting for the short time that it Was around. If you have a TD09 use that and it will be more that you need.
Hope you and Shawn take it with you to the vintage combat meet if work doesn't slow you down.

dennis

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 11:30:57 PM »
reading the ad for the super whipsaw, it says highly prefabricated. By todays standards that kit is like scratch building. back then it was as close to an ARF you could get.


Tom
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 11:32:16 PM »
                I have a Ambroid Whipsaw ( Small one ). The wood is heavy, this thing is built rugged. There's a internal piece of ply in the root area of the wing unlike anything I have seen before. The leading edges and trailing edges are very heavy for such a small plane. My dad built this plane somewhere around 68-69. I flew the plane with a MAX .10 on it and DESTROYED it. The problem was the short nose and the wing root which doesn't allow for a tank. Not knowing any better I placed the tank directly on the wing, set it off singing away and pulled it inverted after a few laps. It just shut off and went in upside down. I was flying in a parking lot. Needless to say my dad wasn't impressed and made me fix it. I never flew it after that and it's been hanging for years. Now that I'm more knowledgeable on how to deal with this, I want to give it a go once again. I still have the Ambroid Eagle decal in the box, it appears like it would actually work still.


Ken,

If I remember a conversation from quite awhile ago you had the Ambroid kit. I also think that Ken  Culbertson had one of them also. They were God awful kits and I'm sure that there are quite a few that could tell tales of really heavy Don Still Stuka stunt and Ares from Ambroid also.
My memories of Enterprise kits was that the wood was decent and the parts were decently die cut. When Ambroid got the dies I can only guess what shape they were in and they cheapened the kits a whole lot.
The $1.95 kit was interesting as it really was a 1/2A size but I dutifully put a Fox 15 Rocket on it. No tank in the world would fit on it and give you more than 3 laps so I used a pacifier for a tank in a tube over the wing and that worked pretty well. Of course the Rocket 15 at $6.95 was a real waste of hard earned cash and just couldn't take Franny's this is it in it very long. It was exciting for the short time that it Was around. If you have a TD09 use that and it will be more that you need.
Hope you and Shawn take it with you to the vintage combat meet if work doesn't slow you down.

dennis
Aerodynamically it probably would work for slow combat if you replaced all of the wood in the kit and used a bladder tube in the outboard wing behind the LE.  We flew a lot of slow combat with planes like this in Korea in our off time when I was stationed there in 1973.  Almost every day.  It was fun and since we had limited supplies we used very long streamer lines.  Drew quite a crowd.  Used surgical tubing in aluminum tubes for tanks.  All we could get for engines were McCoy 35's.   Bet you didn't know that McCoy made a combat special...well they didn't but you could get them to run on bladder pressure - for a while.

Ken
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 07:06:07 AM »
 old kits are history. Pat King and Walt Umland offer prime kits with excellent wood and laser cut parts. Plans are available for just about anything you would want so why buy  or build the old stuff with all of its shortcomings. if they don't make it then send your plan to lazerworks and they will cut you a kit for a reasonable price. They cut parts only no strip or sheet wood is included.
I flew combat in Korea in the 60's

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 07:29:35 AM »

I flew combat in Korea in the 60's
Where?  When I got stationed at Kunsan in '73 there was already a hobby group and shop, just no serious CL.

Ken
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 08:05:17 AM »
Where?  When I got stationed at Kunsan in '73 there was already a hobby group and shop, just no serious CL.

Ken
in

I was at Osan AFB in 66/67 The army had a pretty good recreational activity program which included Model aircraft. we had a decent hobby shop and could get OS and Enya  and Fugi engines and some kits. Went to the army bases for contests, Camp Casey wasn't too far up the road and we flew just about everything there. Also Camp Carrol, wijan and a lot others.
went to the Far East nationals in tajikawa Japan and flew combat and Rat Race. Amazing to think that when I pitted the RR I'd dump a bulb of fuel on the Max3/35 as I was filling the tank as the OS ran hotter than a blast furnace. I bought a Skat Rat and a new ST40 with the rear venturi and flew one race at camp casy before I left the country. The model stayed there.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 09:16:54 AM »
in

I was at Osan AFB in 66/67 The army had a pretty good recreational activity program which included Model aircraft. we had a decent hobby shop and could get OS and Enya  and Fugi engines and some kits. Went to the army bases for contests, Camp Casey wasn't too far up the road and we flew just about everything there. Also Camp Carrol, wijan and a lot others.
went to the Far East nationals in tajikawa Japan and flew combat and Rat Race. Amazing to think that when I pitted the RR I'd dump a bulb of fuel on the Max3/35 as I was filling the tank as the OS ran hotter than a blast furnace. I bought a Skat Rat and a new ST40 with the rear venturi and flew one race at camp casy before I left the country. The model stayed there.
Interesting that the Army could get OS and Enya engines?   Some of our guys were pilots and they tried to get some when they had to ferry a plane to Kedena with no luck.  You preceded me by a couple of years.  In '67 I was at Eglin getting ready to deploy to DaNang with the 4th.  For some reason some of us were transferred to a test squadron just before the deployment and I ended up in Korat instead.  After a couple of tours over there I was given my "Base of Choice" and the base I was instructed to choose was Kunsan.  It was a fun time.

Ken
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2018, 10:06:49 AM »
Ken,
I was in the Air Force. You know they always lived better then the Army. They did have a nice hobby shop. I sent home a few of the Japanese scale models and the Fugi outboard engines which command a premium now. The Army had better recreational programs than the Air Force as in zero for anything as trite as model aircraft contests.  they did send me to the nats in 1968 just weeks before I finished active duty
I made the best of my 4 year loss of a productive life while I was in service and took advantage of every opportunity that was presented to me.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2018, 10:47:21 AM »
Ken,
I was in the Air Force. You know they always lived better then the Army. They did have a nice hobby shop. I sent home a few of the Japanese scale models and the Fugi outboard engines which command a premium now. The Army had better recreational programs than the Air Force as in zero for anything as trite as model aircraft contests.  they did send me to the nats in 1968 just weeks before I finished active duty
I made the best of my 4 year loss of a productive life while I was in service and took advantage of every opportunity that was presented to me.
My Son-in-Law just got back from a tour at Camp Humphreys.  Look that one up on the internet and tell me that we live better than the Army now!  Three generations of my family have "fought" in the Korean War!  My uncle flew B-26's in the hot part of the war.  I got to keep F-4D's happy and my daughter's husband got to, of all things, head up a M.A.S.H.

Amen to taking advantage of things offered.  If you looked, there were everywhere.  I got almost 60 hrs of college credits from various sources and a really nice watch.

Ken

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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 03:34:01 PM »
I was at camp Humphrey. Fifty years really does dull your memory as far as remembering names and places.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 06:20:29 PM »
I was at camp Humphrey. Fifty years really does dull your memory as far as remembering names and places.
50 years ago it was not anything like what it is today! 
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Offline Scorpionjack

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 12:57:59 PM »
Interesting that the Army could get OS and Enya engines?   Some of our guys were pilots and they tried to get some when they had to ferry a plane to Kedena with no luck.  You preceded me by a couple of years.  In '67 I was at Eglin getting ready to deploy to DaNang with the 4th.  For some reason some of us were transferred to a test squadron just before the deployment and I ended up in Korat instead.  After a couple of tours over there I was given my "Base of Choice" and the base I was instructed to choose was Kunsan.  It was a fun time.

Ken
Ken my father had a couple Rat Racers in Japan back then.  Jack Hamilton and Bob St.John

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Offline Scorpionjack

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2018, 01:00:01 PM »
50 years ago it was not anything like what it is today!
I was at Camp Stanton Airfield, flew a Shoestring,  Flight Streak and a Voodoo. Koreans loved watching...

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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2018, 02:11:41 PM »
I was at Camp Stanton Airfield, flew a Shoestring,  Flight Streak and a Voodoo. Koreans loved watching...

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We had most of the Goldberg and Sterling profiles at one time or another.  I can't remember who flew what anymore but I do remember the crowds when we would fly "combat".

Ken
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USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Scorpionjack

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Re: Whipsaw
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2018, 03:38:11 PM »
Ken my father had a couple Rat Racers in Japan back then.  Jack Hamilton and Bob St.John

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I was with the 4th at Ft Carson twice. I was in Chu Chi 25th Inf I was Commo but when I got to Vietnam I was 5' 3 1/2" they said your now a tunnel rat.  Well my body grew quick in one year I went to 6' then off to the honor guard in Miami.

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