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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Combat => Topic started by: phil c on September 03, 2012, 03:59:06 PM
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I used .018 Spectra braid lines in Fast at the NATS. It worked really well.
Since the stunt guys complain about stretchy lines, I did a little test.
A 60 ft. Spectra line stretched 2 in. on a 35 lb. pull. The line itself will take 60-65lb. with the knot I use.
A 60 ft. stainless line also stretched 2 in. on a 35 lb. pull.
So there isn't a lot of difference, except for less weight, no fatigue failure, no kinks, and no curly cues from a line tangle.
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Phil,
Thanks for the post.
.018 power pro spectra fishing line is 100 pound test. I understand the change in breaking strength due to the different knots. What I want to zero in on is the preferred brand you guys are having the most luck with.
Would this be it?
http://www.tackledirect.com/powerpro-fishing-line-braided-spectra-100lb-300yds-white.html
Thank you,
Lane
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That is the stuff I've been using. I got fluorescent yellow, but it faded to white after a couple of years. Either one is very visible on grass or pavement.
I use the knot in the picture. I call it a braided 8 and can be tied to an exact length. It's a modified surgeon's knot. It gets 60-65% of the rated strength, so 60-65 lbs. compared to 50-55 for .018 stainless.
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Phil,
Thank you and thanks for the knot. I tried some half a lines and getting them to be the exact length was a major pain. HB~>
I don't recall the knot but it was the one recommended for braided line.
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Yes that is the knot I was using. Getting it to exactly the right length was a pain for me.
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I viewed the videos on both knots. To the fisherman length is no issue. It looks like neither of the knots offers any way to get the length right, and are, as they say in the bidness "operator-sensitive".
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I've witness Phil C make a set of lines quicker than anyone crimping stainless. It all comes down to finding an easier way. I haven't mastered it myself but I'm gaining on it. If one doesn't want to ruin lines than this small tedious step is a whole lot cheaper than constantly purchasing new flying lines. Ken
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Phil, Do you just attach your line clip to the free loop of the knot?
No thimble needed?
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The line can use regular line clips, either Sullivan style or slider type. I use monoline buttons on the bellcrank for combat and stunt. They need to be turned smoothly, no rough spots.
The fibers in Spectra lines are so fine you can't bend it tight enough to get a kink.
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Continuing this discussion from last Fall:
Phil,
Two questions:
1. Nothing was mentioned about the weight of Spectra vs. stainless lines and whether any difference affects performance, adjustable leadout settings, etc. Any comments on this?
2. For lower performance applications, such as planes in the 40-50 oz range flying at stunt speeds, would you recommend staying with .018 Spectra, or using a smaller diameter?
Thanks
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Continuing this discussion from last Fall:
Phil,
Two questions:
1. Nothing was mentioned about the weight of Spectra vs. stainless lines and whether any difference affects performance, adjustable leadout settings, etc. Any comments on this?
Density of polyethylene is ~1, steel is 7-8, 1/7th the weight of steel. So the weight of the lines has an almost unnoticeable effect on the plane. The lines don't swing around and affect the plane as steel lines do. The plane needs less tip weight, maybe 1/3 of what is needed for steel. I've go no measurements of drag on braided Spectra vs. twisted steel. It doesn't appear to be big.
2. For lower performance applications, such as planes in the 40-50 oz range flying at stunt speeds, would you recommend staying with .018 Spectra, or using a smaller diameter?
I've used .018 Spectra lines on a number of planes weighing 35-50 oz. It didn't seem to make any difference compared to .015 steel lines, but then I'm not a stunt performance connoisseur. The planes all flew better on the lighter lines. A smaller Spectra line with a rated breaking strength of about twice that of steel will work just fine. Any knot will get 50% of the rated strength. Several specialty knots like the one shown above get 60-65%. The kite flyers and kite fishermen run the Spectra through a piece of 70-80 lb. Dacron line and claim to get upwards of 90% of the rated strength.
So have at it, but you can't use it in a stunt contest. You'll have to fly combat.
Thanks
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That is the stuff I've been using. I got fluorescent yellow, but it faded to white after a couple of years. Either one is very visible on grass or pavement.
I use the knot in the picture. I call it a braided 8 and can be tied to an exact length. It's a modified surgeon's knot. It gets 60-65% of the rated strength, so 60-65 lbs. compared to 50-55 for .018 stainless.
Ray Copeland
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I've been practicing Phil's knot on the lines Melvin gave me for 1/2A. At the 75 MPH combat meet today in Tulsa I ask Bob Mears about the lines he was using. Must be the same stuff Phil uses as he said after Brodaks and a line tangle during a match, his steel lines were trashed and phil's were still usable. Anyway Bob got second behind his brother Andy. I think as I'm just flying for fun now and where our circle is I may get some heavier stuff for flying my stunt planes. Today only seen one set of the new lines that were trashed after a line tangle and crash. Also noticed the number of twist that Cary minor was taking out of his lines with very little trouble. Really good as very few line tangles.
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I have heard but that mixing steel and spectra lines in combat are bad mix. The spectra warps up tightly on the steel lines and you can't fly out of a tangle.
Steel - Steel OK,
Spectra- Spectra OK,
Spectra- Steel not good.
Is that the case?
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I have heard but that mixing steel and spectra lines in combat are bad mix. The spectra warps up tightly on the steel lines and you can't fly out of a tangle.
Steel - Steel OK,
Spectra- Spectra OK,
Spectra- Steel not good.
Is that the case?
I have flown out of line tangles with steel/spectra, it can be done. And I have seen spectra line trash steel lines in a wrap.
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This is what I've begun using. The, 'super slick' sounded pretty good to me and thought it worth trying. The brochure states the smoothness comes from an, ''8 yarn Spectra fibre construction ...". They work really well with positive feel to the controls and the light weight of the lines making a big difference in the planes performance. I haven't used the regular green box line so I don't know if there's any difference. So far I'm using the .012"-50# test on my Super Duper Zilch/Fox 59 and the .008"-30# test on a Ringmaster Jr/Fox 15 Schneurle and Lil Hackers/pressue TD's.
But, it's all academic if you can't use them in competition except for combat.
Ara
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they have one major advantage in that they are slippery and you can maintain more control if you are in a tangle.
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After watching the guys fly combat at Tulsa, I am planning on try the lines on my stunt planes and hopefully logging data. They will not be excepted if they can't be proven to be safe. Especially on the bigger stunt planes.
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Whether there is a problem with steel lines vs Spectra depends mostly on the pilots. I flew a match with Howard Williams a couple years a couple years ago, we got into a horrible line tangle. It probably took 30-40 seconds before we flew out of it but managed to keep the tangle well out on the lines. When the tangle slides in to the handles it's nearly certain one or both planes will crash. Anyway, after the match he showed me his lines. Both lines had broken two strands from fatigue bending. I went and checked my lines. I found a 1 inch black mark on one that wiped right off with a paper towel.
The rulebook has a table for line diameters/plane weight for sport flying, basically taken from the PA rules. The recommended sizes work fine. They are the same diameters(from the mfg or monofilament equivalent diameters) as the equivalent stainless steel lines.