Author Topic: Sneeker advice needed (Read 8930 times)

Tim Chenevert · « **on:** February 03, 2018, 03:55:46 PM »

I have a very old Sneeker with a Super Tigre G21 35 on a pacifier system. I broke the wooden prop that was on it so I put a wooden 10x5 prop to start it. Finally got it started and excited to fly it now. I would like to put the correct propeller on it but have no idea what this plane should use. The old prop diameter was 8” but was told this was a “slower” prop. I was also told the engine had been internally modified but not sure what has been done. It was running a rich 4 cycle at 5500 RPM. I have not tried to lean it because of the prop change. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Tim

Chad Hill · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2018, 04:22:24 PM »

Back in those days 8-8s, 9-7s and 9-6s were commonly used on G21 Tigres.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2018, 05:24:26 PM »

So the 10-5 is too big? Maybe go with a 9-6 for first flight? Tim

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2018, 06:18:48 AM »

My 2 cents. The G-21 will run pretty well with the 10x5 and an APC 9-6 will be lively. TS

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2018, 08:22:05 AM »

Thanks guys for the info! May try to start it again today. I am hoping to fly it next week and can not wait! Right now I am using Omega 10% fuel, the pink stuff, with castor to bring it up to 23% oil total and nitro is approx 9%. Origionally it is a 30/70 castor/syn mix and 10% nitro. Does this sound about right? This is all that is available from my LHS. Thanks again, Tim

Paul Smith · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2018, 02:01:25 PM »

With a bladder system, under-revving the engine will cause a lot trouble. The bladder gives constant fuel flow, so if it bogs down in turns, the engine will rich out.

So run a 9/7 or less.

Odds are, if your G21 ws used in combat, it was probably abused with bad fuel. So at this point the damage has, most likely, already been done.

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2018, 03:54:15 PM »

Quote from: Tim Chenevert on February 03, 2018, 03:55:46 PM

I have a very old Sneeker with a Super Tigre G21 35 on a pacifier system. I broke the wooden prop that was on it so I put a wooden 10x5 prop to start it. Finally got it started and excited to fly it now. I would like to put the correct propeller on it but have no idea what this plane should use. The old prop diameter was 8” but was told this was a “slower” prop. I was also told the engine had been internally modified but not sure what has been done. It was running a rich 4 cycle at 5500 RPM. I have not tried to lean it because of the prop change. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Tim

I flew Riley Wooten designs in the 1968 Nationals at the Olathe, Kansas Naval Air Station........(Vampires and Voodoos at that particalar contest) using the Super Tigre G-21 .35 engine and took home the 5th place trophy. Of course Riley won first in the Nats that year, flying his Flite Line Vampire and a Fox .36x BB. A Canadian flier, Pierre Seguin, flew against Riley for first place and after getting a good streamer trimming, he went home with second place flying a Sneeker with a Super Tigre G-21-35. ...... Anyhow, I found that on Wooten designs, the G-31 .35 performed best for me with a 9/7 paddle blade Top Flite prop, a pacifier pressure fuel system and Missile Mist fuel. I suspect that Rev-up 9/7's would also work well, if you can find them. I also had, in the 1960's, three of Riley's Flite Line Sneekers which I flew with the Fox .36x BB engine, pacifier fuel system, Missile Mist fuel and the Top Flite 9/7 nylon prop and that combination worked well....won a few trophies in local contests around the midwest. .... On the one winder that I built back then, I ran the Super Tigre G-21 .35 engine, pacifier fuel system, Missile Mist fuel and a 9/6 Rev-up prop....which worked extremely well. Experimentation is the key to finding what works best for you.

Bob Mears · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2018, 07:19:49 AM »

We ran Rev-up 9x7 combat special prop. They were actually a 9x6.5. Had the red tips on them. Today I run a nylon 8x8 on everything 35 in nostalgia combat.

bob whitney · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2018, 08:37:24 AM »

if u can find a Rev up 8 1/2 /6 1/2 wide blade, it works great on the Voo Doo and Sneeker

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2018, 01:50:03 PM »

Brodak has quite a number of rev up props. They are in back storage so you have to ask. TS

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2018, 02:02:10 PM »

I built my one and only Sneeker in 1970 . Silk and dope, LS Fox 36xBB and pacifier. Never used in competition .( not flown 1975 to 2008). At the 2008 AMA Fly-IN, took it out and on the second flight, the original nylon bell crank broke in half , so it was curtain time. Just so that you know, it was pull tested. Even today, I consider my Sneeker to be the most stable combat ship I've ever flown.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2018, 02:55:33 PM »

Well guys today I was flying my Twister and I think I have the bugs worked out of it. Seems a new glow plug and a new mix of fuel was all not took! So I had brought the Sneeker with me and I asked Perry if he would hold it for me and he said he would. I fueled it with 1 1/2oz and clamped it. I still had the 10x5 prop on it but bought a 9x7 this morning but didn't install it. Anyway, I started it, walked the lines out and signaled Perry to let go. Wow! What a plane. The flying wing is awesome compared to my Ringmaster and Twister! Very stable and Perry said the ST 35 sounded like a piped engine. It is a very fast plane to say the least. I had to leave after that first flight but look forward to flying the Sneeker again....with the 9x7 prop. I do plan on repainting and recovering it in purple and gold. I even have a name for it now, "Tiger" because it felt like I had a tiger by the tail! Lol Does anyone know if there are any kits still available? I would like to build another one. Tim

Andre Ming · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2018, 06:26:14 PM »

Quote

A Canadian flier, Pierre Seguin, flew against Riley for first place and after getting a good streamer trimming, he went home with second place flying a Sneeker with a Super Tigre G-21-35. .....

Okay... then which year was it that Riley won with a Vampire and Canadian Al Baker finished 2nd flying an ST powered "Eegad"? I thought Riley/Al's match was at Olathe in 1968?

??

Andre

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2018, 07:01:12 PM »

Quote from: Andre Ming on February 05, 2018, 06:26:14 PM

Okay... then which year was it that Riley won with a Vampire and Canadian Al Baker finished 2nd flying an ST powered "Eegad"? I thought Riley/Al's match was at Olathe in 1968?

??

Andre

Nope............Riley won in Open Combat at the Nationals in 1966 which was held at Glenview Naval Air Station flying his Flite Line Vampire (classic Wooten trademark finish - white trimmed with red). He was running Fox .36x BB's. I was at Glenview in 1966 and flew in that event. Unfortunately for me, in the first round, I flew my Wooten Vampire / Fox .36x BB against a United States Air Force Team member and he took off my stabulator. He got back in thee air and since he was ahead on points ....... he won and effectively reduced me, after that first round match, to a spectator. It was here that Riley encountered the Canadian Al Baker in the match for first place. The year was 1966. The place was Glenview Naval Air Station, Chicago, IL. There is a well known photo of Riley and Al taken just after the match which was published in one of the model airplane magazines of the day.....I think it was American Modeler, but I am not sure. Al Baker and Pierre Seguin were both Canadian and both flew against Riley Wooten for first place in the nationals..........Al Baker went against Riley in Glenview, IL in 1966 ........... Pierre Seguin went against Riley in Olathe, KS in 1968. Both Canadians went down before Riley's guns and Riley went home with the hardware. ....... I know .... I was there !

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »

Quote from: Frank Imbriaco on February 05, 2018, 02:02:10 PM

I built my one and only Sneeker in 1970 . Silk and dope, LS Fox 36xBB and pacifier. Never used in competition .( not flown 1975 to 2008). At the 2008 AMA Fly-IN, took it out and on the second flight, the original nylon bell crank broke in half , so it was curtain time. Just so that you know, it was pull tested. Even today, I consider my Sneeker to be the most stable combat ship I've ever flown.

The Flite Line Sneeker was quite stable and flew like a sports car drives. I liked Sneekers, but I like Howard Rush's Nemesis II the best over all....one heck of an airplane !

Andre Ming · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2018, 09:13:52 PM »

Ah, so it was '66 at Glenview!

As a kid I remember seeing the picture of Riley holding his Vampire and shaking hands with Al and his Eegad in that magazine. Sure would like to find that picture again. In fact, finding the entire magazine would be great IF I knew which one it was.

Thanks for clearing up my corn-fusion.

Andre

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2018, 06:08:25 AM »

Umland makes a beautiful kit. Flys great! TS

Chad Hill · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2018, 08:43:34 AM »

Tim, Bare sells the plans at:

http://www.controllineplans.com/frameset2.htm

If I recall correctly, Riley or Marvin Denny once posted that the original Sneeker had a 3" or 4" greater wingspan, but the kit model was shortened due to packaging and shipping reasons. The extra span helped turning ability and can be added in the center section. Because the G21 was heavier than the 36X BB, you would want to build the extended boom version.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2018, 09:32:05 AM »

Tim I have an original Flite Line Sneeker kit if your intrested

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2018, 11:07:00 AM »

Has some one contacted Riley on this stuff? In fact didn't he post some recollections of his endeavers on here? I may search later if some one doesn't beat me to it.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2018, 12:48:04 PM »

Quote from: Fredvon4 on February 06, 2018, 09:32:05 AM

Tim I have an original Flite Line Sneeker kit if your intrested

Fred, I sent you an email. Tim

John, I sent Riley Wooten a PM a few days ago but haven’t heard back. Tim

Andre Ming · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2018, 05:31:55 PM »

I have an Umland Sneeker. VERY nice kit... wrong nose pod in regards to a historical replica. Umland's uses the stubby "Nemesis" type nose pod that didn't come around until after the original Sneeker era. If/when I build my Umland Sneeker, I will be using a longer nose pod like they were originally back in the early/mid sixties.

Admittedly, the above is a very small "non issue" (gnat/camel type thing)... but I'm sometimes a bit anal about things.

Of course, YMMV!!

Andre

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2018, 06:58:47 PM »

You can try to contact this seller on eBay, He use to sell the Sneeker kit and many others.
Al

https://www.ebay.com/usr/henry36912

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2018, 10:46:06 AM »

I think I got the last kits that Henry Shun was hand cutting. Lives in Hawaii. I have not received any E-Mails from him for some time. My favorite planes from him was the smaller Sneeker and Bosta. Both fly great with Fox .15 Schnuerle on suction. According to search he is 84 years young and still alive.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2018, 02:47:57 PM »

Fred, I sent you an email today. Tim

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 08, 2018, 09:22:29 AM »

Got it Tim we are on track

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #26 on:** February 08, 2018, 04:19:05 PM »

Awesome Fred and thank you very much! Tim

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #27 on:** February 09, 2018, 04:15:31 AM »

I have decided to build the Sneeker so I can fly it more because my other one is so old. I am looking for advice on fuel tank setups other than the pacifier ( which I think is cool ) so it will be easier to fuel up. I see on the plans a Veco T-21 modified tank is recommended but I am sure they are hard fo find and have rust. So a modern recommendation? Also a good choice for an engine? Thanks, Tim

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #28 on:** February 09, 2018, 06:49:38 AM »

Brodak has tanks. Brand new and nice. You can even get a tank kit and plumb it yourself. Motor. WOW! Anything from a stout .15 to a .40. I prefer vintage therefore my Sneeker has an LS Fox .36xbb abc. Part vintage anyway! Ts
PS 3oz. should get you dizzy enough

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2018, 08:23:25 AM »

Brodak has a do it yourself tank that is 1”Hx2”Wx3 1/2”L number BH-784 that looks like it can be plumped like the Veco T-21 on the Sneeker plans? If I am reading the plans right, it gets pressure from top tube and fuel flow is from bottom tube on tank? Tim

Chad Hill · « **Reply #30 on:** February 09, 2018, 08:25:22 AM »

Hello Tim, here is a photo of the syringe that I use. It makes refueling a pacifier or a bladder a piece of cake. For convenience you would want to solder about a 2" extension piece of metal tubing on the end of the spout, because it is short. These syringes, made by Nasco, are available at farm co-ops and veterinarian supply stores, and I'm sure they can be found online. They cost about $5 and last forever, and hold about 2 1/2 ounces of fuel. My unsolicited advice would be to stay away from metal tanks on combat ships. Pacifiers and bladders generally provide steadier engine runs during high speed, high-g maneuvering.

badbill · « **Reply #31 on:** February 09, 2018, 08:36:01 AM »

Here's my Sneeker from one of Walter's kits. Powered by a LA 40 with a Red Cap for the bladder. No need for any special kind of syringe, easy to fill. Works a charm, nice even runs and flies awesome.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #32 on:** February 09, 2018, 08:55:07 AM »

Red cap? Can you tell me more about this? Thanks, Tim

Bob Mears · « **Reply #33 on:** February 09, 2018, 09:17:48 AM »

Quote from: Andre Ming on February 05, 2018, 06:26:14 PM

Okay... then which year was it that Riley won with a Vampire and Canadian Al Baker finished 2nd flying an ST powered "Eegad"? I thought Riley/Al's match was at Olathe in 1968?

??

Andre

Riley did win the 68 Nats with a Vampire in Olathe. I dont recall who he flew or what airplane they used. But I was there.

It may be a bit before Riles can email anyone. He has had another stroke and isnt doing great. Time will tell how this will come out.

badbill · « **Reply #34 on:** February 09, 2018, 10:02:44 AM »

Quote from: Tim Chenevert on February 09, 2018, 08:55:07 AM

Red cap? Can you tell me more about this? Thanks, Tim

Use them the same as a pacifier or bladder. http://littleredcap.com/ They have less pressure and work great. Ridiculous cheap on Ebay. I keep several made up in my flight box.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2018, 11:06:19 AM »

Guess I will give them a try.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 09, 2018, 11:50:21 AM »

Almost missed Bob's note on Riley Wooten stroke

Met him several times at Bobby Mears and a truly fine gentleman who was happy to listen to me prattle on about combat and ask him to sign a set of plans I had

Riley is in our family prayers

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2018, 12:37:40 PM »

Wow! I will include him in my daily prayers! Tim

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #38 on:** February 09, 2018, 01:06:49 PM »

Quote from: badbill on February 09, 2018, 10:02:44 AM

Use them the same as a pacifier or bladder. http://littleredcap.com/ They have less pressure and work great. Ridiculous cheap on Ebay. I keep several made up in my flight box.

badbill ...... (or anyone who is familiar with "REDCAPS".) ..... I am looking for a replacement for the pacifier tanks of the 1960's which are increasingly hard to find and I see 'REDCAPS" mentioned above. Are these what you are talking about and if so how do you make them into a pressure tank. Is the final shape round like a pacifier or longer like a pen bladder or a surgical tubing tank? Sounds like a possible answer to what I am looking for .......... so.......is this the product and if so what do we need to know about their characteristics, life, etc. ...... https://www.ebay.com/p/Little-Red-Cap-Contractor-Pack-Caulk-Saving-Cap-Red-Pack-of-35/25011369909?iid=272279931859&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48419%26meid%3De2956f254d3e430895f5e8ccacb23588%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D361603202656%26itm%3D272279931859&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

badbill · « **Reply #39 on:** February 09, 2018, 01:21:44 PM »

Quote from: Terrence Durrill on February 09, 2018, 01:06:49 PM

badbill ...... (or anyone who is familiar with "REDCAPS".) ..... I am looking for a replacement for the pacifier tanks of the 1960's which are increasingly hard to find and I see 'REDCAPS" mentioned above. Are these what you are talking about and if so how do you make them into a pressure tank. Is the final shape round like a pacifier or longer like a pen bladder or a surgical tubing tank? Sounds like a possible answer to what I am looking for .......... so.......is this the product and if so what do we need to know about their characteristics, life, etc. ...... https://www.ebay.com/p/Little-Red-Cap-Contractor-Pack-Caulk-Saving-Cap-Red-Pack-of-

Yes, That is them. They will hold a smidge over 2 OZ, and hold up well unless you overfill them. Final shape is round. I recently took out the Sneeker and flew it after it had been sitting for several months and the red cap in it worked fine, flew it six times that day. But I have to wonder why you think pacifiers are hard to find, I have bought binky's at Walmart not long ago, before I switched over to the Red Caps.

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2018, 01:53:07 PM »

I have looked around (I guess in all the wrong places) lol and never found them. I did buy some pacifiers on eBay and they work great but wasn’t sure how long the pacifiers would be available and that is why the change to a hard tank on the Sneeker I am about to build. Now that I have options, I will stay with the bladder system. This is still new to me, especially combat planes, and I do appreciate all the advice and knowledge that you guys are giving me. Tim

Bob Mears · « **Reply #41 on:** February 09, 2018, 02:37:08 PM »

I've used both little red caps and bladders. Bladders actually work a little bit better. Enough that I purchased hundreds of them just for modelers. I sell Nelson plugs on my site too if you need any.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combat-bladder-baby-pacifier-free-flight-pressure-fuel-system/172216355832?epid=1371059108&hash=item2818e50bf8:g:qfkAAOSwX~dWlFzN

pmackenzie · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2018, 09:21:12 AM »

Quote from: Bob Mears on February 09, 2018, 02:37:08 PM

I've used both little red caps and bladders. Bladders actually work a little bit better. Enough that I purchased hundreds of them just for modelers. I sell Nelson plugs on my site too if you need any.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combat-bladder-baby-pacifier-free-flight-pressure-fuel-system/172216355832?epid=1371059108&hash=item2818e50bf8:g:qfkAAOSwX~dWlFzN

Hi Bob,
didn't realize you were rx8guy.

Your ebay listing does not allow shipping to Canada. Any way around this?
I have an old Bosta someone gave me, it needs a pacifier setup so I can fly it.

We are all North Americans after all, a Mexican F2D pilot should know that

Thanks,

Pat MacKenzie

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2018, 01:10:27 PM »

Tim I will through in a half dozen red caps in the Sneeker Kit

and a few PIPETTES.... WallMart Gerber Pacifier bulbs are too strong IMO

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #44 on:** February 10, 2018, 02:06:19 PM »

Thanks Fred! I bought a used Fox 36XBB engine for the Sneeker today at my LHS. It has a fine needle thread on it and a smooth head. The insert has been removed but he said he has one if I want it. Compression is excellent too. Question, How many ounces will go into the pacifier or red cap? Thanks, Tim

Chad Hill · « **Reply #45 on:** February 10, 2018, 02:17:41 PM »

Quote from: Fredvon4 on February 10, 2018, 01:10:27 PM

.... WallMart Gerber Pacifier bulbs are too strong IMO

* * * * *

Texas Timers (free flight supplies) sells a pressure reducing bladder fitting that makes needle setting a bit less sensitive (see "BLADDER FITTING" under the "Pressure Bladders" section, found in the left column):

http://www.texastimers.com

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #46 on:** February 10, 2018, 02:31:35 PM »

Thanks Chad. I took a pic of the engine I just bought, can anyone tell me anything about it? I heard it is a good engine for the Sneeker. I am especially curious about the smooth head. I was told this engine should run on a bladder system. Thanks, Tim

Andre Ming · « **Reply #47 on:** February 10, 2018, 04:24:11 PM »

Tim:

That isn't a 36XBB. You have an infamous "bald head" Combat Special from 1974-75 or so. The 36X dies were irretrievably altered to make the bald head Combat Special, thus ending the production life of the 36X. The production tolerances were not good on the earlier bald heads. (It's a long and sordid story that I've told here elsewhere.) When you get a good one, they are very stout. Hopefully yours will serve you well.

Best of luck with it.

Andre

Tim Chenevert · « **Reply #48 on:** February 10, 2018, 06:09:13 PM »

Hummmm, I didn’t realize the engine wasn’t very good and thought it was a BB. I may want to go and see what else is there.....Tim

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #49 on:** February 11, 2018, 06:14:41 AM »

Tim, Andre's comments are pretty much right on, but this motor had tons of power compared to the 36x. I had a Voodoo with an LS .36xbb and it was pretty fast. When the 'baldie' came out we wanted to compare. LS tuned the needle and launched. It was an easy 5 mph faster than before!! But..... the front of the crank snapped and the second shaft also snapped. These were from the very first batch. Another pal got one a little later and it is still running. So, I would give it a go. It will be thrilling!! TS