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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Combat => Topic started by: john e. holliday on April 24, 2010, 08:44:45 AM

Title: Proposals
Post by: john e. holliday on April 24, 2010, 08:44:45 AM

I see somone has put in a proposal to replace fast combat with F2D with AMA scoring.  In other words KILLS end the match and win.   To me it may be just as fast using existing F2D lines and equipment.  One I like is releiving the ED/CD the responsibilty of if the shut off works or not and leaves it up to the contestant.  Remember they must get past the preliminary vote on order to be tweaked.   H^^

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: Paul Smith on April 24, 2010, 01:18:09 PM

To elaborate on Doc's short form of this proposal:

The old traditional AMA Fast Combat is essentially dead. The last couple years, a handful of guys showed up to keep the ghost alive at two contests, The Nats and The Bladder Grabber. These are older flyers using up their stock of old equipment which is no longer available. In 2010 only 14 people entered this event.  The future looks like nothing but further deteroration

In contrast, F2D is alive and well and there are numerous contests with plenty of entries. Winning equipment (at a cost) is available via a single visit to a web site. IN the USA and Canada, over 100 flyers are active in F2D.

Fast Combat, which requires only one model per match and ends with a kill (not always a collision or line tangle), could be fun to fly with no additional equipment.  

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: Greg McCoy on April 24, 2010, 01:43:54 PM

Having flown both styles of planes, the reduced weight of the f2d makes it in my opinion easier and more fun to fly. The fast planes, again in my opinion, carried more risk.

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: dave siegler on April 24, 2010, 06:52:55 PM

So same engine as current F2d?  
same useless muffler?
same intake restrictor?
same 10%-20% caster rule on fuel?  

Same lines?

If FAI changes the engine requirements, what happens?  I would bet the exhaust exit size will shrink soon.

Good f2d guys get new engines almost every year for an 100 RPM.  I have several cast offs that make great speed limit motors but won't pull like a new fora.    

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: Paul Smith on April 25, 2010, 07:00:19 AM

Quote from: dave siegler on April 24, 2010, 06:52:55 PM

So same engine as current F2d?  
same useless muffler?
same intake restrictor?
same 10%-20% caster rule on fuel?  

Same lines?

If FAI changes the engine requirements, what happens?  I would bet the exhaust exit size will shrink soon.

Good f2d guys get new engines almost every year for an 100 RPM.  I have several cast offs that make great speed limit motors but won't pull like a new fora.    

Some valid points.  But the idea of the proposal (as it now stands) is that you can go to a contest and use exactly the same stuff in both events, now and in the future.  

The only difference is that in the F2D match you stand to lose two whole sets of equipment and in Fast, only one.  And since a kill wins, the late-match thuggery is not a part of Fast.  If a better engine come out, you only need to buy ONE to support Fast, not 4, like in F2D.

But most important, you will have more chances to actually fly Fast Combat, not just two sparsely-entered contests like now.

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: dave siegler on April 25, 2010, 07:07:16 AM

I get it, I understand the concept.   

I was just asking, how far the statement "using F2d equipment went".   

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: Brad LaPointe on April 25, 2010, 07:59:27 AM

One more point I see is the use of F2D legal planes built just for "fast" .I'm talk'n slimmed down high aspect ratio foam planes that don't survive as well in true F2D conditions but would be bitch'n in a fast application.

Still a rules legal airframe but a purpose built assassin.

Brad

Title: Re: Proposals
Post by: Paul Smith on April 25, 2010, 10:46:06 AM

Agreed, I think.

As I wrote it, you could use either an off-the-shelf Viko, or try to design something better.  Due to the much lower mortality rate in Fast, it might spawn the design of "a few good planes".   Then, these improved designs might make their way into F2D and improve the breed.  Maybe the 1986 Doroshenko airframe could use some new tinking.

Brad & The Beanfield Team - kick *** and take names in Houston.