News:



  • March 28, 2024, 04:48:26 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Spectra Update  (Read 4424 times)

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Spectra Update
« on: July 28, 2017, 12:10:20 PM »
I talked to one one of the folks on the AMA Tech Committee for Spectra(sorry I didn't write the name down).  He said everything was fine but the committee wanted a more fail safe knot-one with two strands around the end, just in case.

He'd done some tests and found a figure eight knot tied on a bight(folded over line) could pull test very close to the rated strength and only failed in the line, not at the knot.  This is a big plus, much stronger than stainless steel cables.

Here's how to do it:

Cut a piece of line twice as long as you need, plus about2-1/2ft for the knots.
1) form a bight(fold over) about 8 inches long in one end.  Mark it in the middle of the doubled up line.  This will be where the two line loops end up.(fig 1)
2) use a ball end driver or a small crochet hook to catch the marks and fold both lines again.  Then bend the doubled line around over the standing line and pull it up through the loop.
3) fold the marked double line around, under, and up through the original fold.  It's now a figure eight knot on a bight.
4) hold the marked loop with the hook and straighten even up the 4 strands going through the bottom of the knot.
5) lube the four line bundle with some spit or water and gradually pull on the hook, keeping an even grip on the lines below the knot.  The loops on the hook will get longer and the knot smaller and tighter.
6)  Tie a similar knot on the end of the long line.  Fold it in the middle with the two knots hooked or held in place.  Mark the line length on both strands and then cut the line half way in between the marks.
7) Tie similar knots in the two free ends.
8) Once the lines are tied it is a good idea to set the braid in the lines by pulling on each line and holding about 30% of the breaking strength for 15-20 seconds.  Do the same pull on both lines at least twice.
If nothing slipped while tying the knots the lines should be equal length within the width of the marks.
phil Cartier

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22752
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 11:13:37 AM »
Getting old.  Have a hard time visualizing this.   Do you have a video? ???
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »
John.... I am loath to give ANY advice to a gent who could teach me so MUCH

I do NOT see a compelling reason to play with fishing line now that I have more or less mastered BUYING already prefect sets from some sources, or making my own terminated steel lines

That said, I have used Spectra DyNema (sp?) for some 1/2a stuff but the beauty there is one continuous line so only 2 terminations not caring about equal spacing (adjusted at the handle)

I did buy a 325Yrd roll of 60Lb Dynema stuff, and started at 70 foot lines trying to teach self to get equal +/- 1/8th lines... a task that for me is simple with MBS or Tom Morris 7 strand bulk lines,,,, and a pre determined goal of 58/60/65/ eye to eye length...in fact I can get easily within 1/16th with the steel and crimps....not so with the fishing knots no matter who's method I try to copy

Not sure where this advice is going cuz I am now side tracked by this thought;

I would pay a fair price for any cottage guy who advertises complete Spectra sets already terminated in 1 foot increment from 58' to 70' and the appropriate weight for the size model




"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 08:11:11 PM »
Getting old.  Have a hard time visualizing this.   Do you have a video? ???

I don't, but Mike Stinson does: 
phil Cartier

Offline Target

  • C/L Addict
  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 02:56:21 PM »
The knot in the video isn't a figure 8 on a bight,  from what i can see. Similar,  but not the same.
Phil, is the figure 8 better than the knot shown on the video?  I would think it would possibly be easier to pull down smoother and easier than the knot shown on the video.
Thanks in advance and sorry to be a contrarian.
R,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
AMA 5956

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 718
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 05:16:19 PM »
So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's the same as this video, but the Spectra is just doubled compared to the rope in the video?




Mark

Offline Target

  • C/L Addict
  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2017, 05:35:06 PM »
Yes, Mark-
You are correct on all accounts. I feel equipped to answer since I am a USCG licensed captain since 1983 and have a little bit of knot tying under my belt.
I'll let (and look forward to) Phil answer about the subtle difference between the doubled figure 8 and the other knot in spectra since I don't have much spectra tying experience.

I'm interested in what size spectra I would want to use for 1/2A (non-combat) lines.
Any suggestions, Phil?

Thanks gents.
Regards,
Chris
AMA 5956

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 718
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 06:08:11 PM »


I'm interested in what size spectra I would want to use for 1/2A (non-combat) lines.
Any suggestions, Phil?

Thanks gents.

I've been flying my 1/2A planes the last four years on 10# Spectra tied on the AMA recommended 5-turn Double Uni.  Last year I did a test on different tests of Spectra from 10# up through 60# test.  I think the 10# knot failed at 18 pounds weight.  It was an un-scientific test of me just making up two foot lengths of line for each test strength and then suspending barbel weights until the line or the knot failed.

So, I have not had a failure in four years using 10# test for sport flying, and have no qualms in recommending it.

Mark

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22752
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 06:39:10 PM »
This old man thanks both of you gentlemen for the videos.   Now to put them to use.  Thanks again. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Target

  • C/L Addict
  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 08:15:34 PM »
Thanks Mark.
I'll probably err on the side of caution and go a bit heavier anyway.
Anyone know what .008 steel lines fail at?
Regards,
Chris
AMA 5956

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1260
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2017, 10:43:14 PM »

Anyone know what .008 steel lines fail at?

After about one good kink...

That's the beauty of Spectra lines.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 718
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 07:07:57 PM »
I talked to one one of the folks on the AMA Tech Committee for Spectra(sorry I didn't write the name down).  He said everything was fine but the committee wanted a more fail safe knot-one with two strands around the end, just in case.

Hmmm....  Now that I think about it, the already AMA designated knot, the 5-turn Double-Uni, is tied on a bight and does have two strands around the end.  I wonder why they don't like that  for combat?

Mark

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 03:44:58 AM »
               Fred, I don't mean any disrespect here, but were not flying 1-2 flights daily and packing it up and going home. Were flying 50 plus matches on contest day. On a regular weekend were flying 1/2 that and sometimes as much if you include Sat and Sun. During a contest, I  myself am involved in approx 4-8 of those matches therefore my son and I run the risk of losing a set of lines during one of them. I go through over 100 yds a season doing so. While I commend your attempt at terminating lines, that wasn't the issue at hand here. The issue is the knot, the next issue is how do you inspect this new knot and WHEN do you inspect this knot. Do I throw out all of my line sets currently in use now?  I keep a minimum of 6 line sets made up with me daily not to mention those in storage waiting for use. DO i throw all those out too? There's more to this than just quibbling over a knot and how strong it is.  Seeing that we pull test prior to each flight, this is adding yet another undesired step in my opinion to something that already has been working and has been working fine. So this brings the next question as to WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THIS NEW REQUEST OF A KNOT. What lobbied the individual to require it and why now after several years of using the proposed knot that WE FINALLY in my case taught the club to tie. Terminations such as thimbles are a poor idea. Just about every one I fly with is using button or hooked bellcranks. Terminated cables or Spectra isn't even going to pass through the tip guide.

                   Mark. while you mention 10# test, I have to ask are you flying 1/2A combat? In addition are you using ball bearing 1/2A's or bushed .061 equivalents? This changes the game considerably as these are not Cox related engines not to mention the use of Russian glass props. To suggest 10# test working for you is terrific if your sport flying on the weekends but in my opionion 10# is not enough for the event that's being discussed here.

                  I haven't looked at the video in this post yet but I will. I'm not the keeper of the cheese here and I will have to bow down to those above me that obviously fly more than myself and my club members do. I have attended quite a bit of contests over the years and I truly would've loved to discuss these matters with the individuals that apparently are on the sidelines making these engineered observations. Where are these people during the contests? DO they stand afar due to the imminent danger of the possible failing knot? Are they in the trees?   Ken the bosun mate

Offline Ara Dedekian

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 488
  • Ara Dedekian
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 08:45:51 AM »
I talked to one one of the folks on the AMA Tech Committee for Spectra(sorry I didn't write the name down).  He said everything was fine but the committee wanted a more fail safe knot-one with two strands around the end, just in case.


        Was the tech addressing knots used for Combat or the future use of Spectra for all C/L rule book events?

        Ara

Offline mike londke

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1468
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2017, 09:09:27 AM »
Everything Ken said is spot on. My understanding is they are trying to approve Spectra for CLPA events, not just sport flying. I am sure there will be a flurry of protests within the Stunt community about about it being the downfall of control line. I have to ask, "why the new knot?" when the combat guys have solid, hands on data from the field for years and years. It works, it's safe and it is equal to or better than steel. I have seen more steel lines fail than Spectra.
AMA 48913  USPA D-19580  NRA Life Member  MI State Record Holder 50 way Freefall Formation Skydive  "Don't let the planet sneak up on you"

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2017, 11:20:17 AM »
Ken, my brother, as I am the only "Fred" in this thread--- I am not sure --where you mean NO DISRESPECT...
But OK--- certainly none taken...very especially from you--- who I deeply respect, and learn a LOT from

My point ---responding to, NON Competitor John (AKA DOC Holiday) was simply----
The deep thinking about Spectra lines, knots etc.... was not all that necessary for us, NOW casual sport fliers....
I am certain, with NO trepidation, that Doc Holiday could look at a set of my terminated .015 lines ---and invite me into his shop and school me...

I do get it that man made fibers can have quite a few desirable features over mono or stranded metal lines

MY real experience is (despite very casual, and very few flights, on combat planes) is that MY attempts to use a BETTER--- IMO, flying line set ----IE Dyneema/Spectra/ Fishing line ----is that ----
Trying to use my aged body, and deteriorated shaky hands, and progressively poor eye sight--- to get a set of usable, nearly same length, lines, is a hard task....OK-- seems that for me--- impossible

BUT I do know---they (Spectra et all) are actually better than .012, .015, or .018 stranded steel

And I stand by my last comment... If Phil Cartier, Tom Morris, Randy Smith, or any other cottage guy---- offered Spectra lines ----in various strengths and lengths I would certainly be a customer

And for the record--- cuz I do not compete... I would NOT be greatly concerned WHAT knot was used

BUT obviously--- if I was to buy--- pre-made lines for competition -----they would certainly need to comply with AMA rules

I seriously do respect, and understand, the desire to get the AMA-- to get freaking real ---and zoom into the 19th century, regarding a whole host of current technology... not just AI controlled FPV, autonomous return to home---- Drones

I usually find these threads about fishing line frustrating--- as it pertains to the AMA Rules... Currently acceptance for Combat ( dangerous sport) but a lingering concern for Stunt....(NOT SO DANGEROUS SPORT) REALLY???!!!

I would probably focus my energies IF  (I was MR AMA) on concerns about current flying line specs and capabilities in the faster classes of Racing or Speed...just from a common sense SAFETY perspective

That is- IMO ---For years NOW ----we have had products that greatly exceed the Tested/assumed/and scientific -safety parameters -by a factor of 10 or more

Not sure who all the numb nutty folks are, inside the AMA ----but it seems to me, many of them are not qualified....
scientific facts of differing products is easy to research,
A 100% knowledge of the current rules is implied in the job title...
cost benefit ratios, some scientific/rational, easy to implement testing method described,... is their responsibility!
advancing the state of the ART is an implied responsibility

I do not compete and --as I age ---never will again, in any sanctioned AMA venue

BUT those of you who do,
need to seriously thump your knuckles on the current, and any future AMA leader's foreheads, ....

OK NOT Truly physically assault a elected member....

BUT do chastise them
INTO
doing THEIR JOB
COMPLETELY
IMNSHO








"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 718
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2017, 12:43:53 PM »
         
                   Mark. while you mention 10# test, I have to ask are you flying 1/2A combat? In addition are you using ball bearing 1/2A's or bushed .061 equivalents? This changes the game considerably as these are not Cox related engines not to mention the use of Russian glass props. To suggest 10# test working for you is terrific if your sport flying on the weekends but in my opionion 10# is not enough for the event that's being discussed here.

Ken,

No, I do not fly 1/2A combat.  I like to watch, but my reflexes and especially my back are not up to it.  In recommending the 10# Spectra, I was responding to Chris' question above on what Spectra line to use for 1/2A non-combat flying.  That's why I was confident in recommending the 10# test.  I have no experience in flying combat and would not presume to recommend what test rating to use for that type of flying.

Mark

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2017, 03:01:05 PM »
          While I sound like a broken record from post to post, my rant is due to the fact that that way I'm interpreting this post. I should discuss this issue with Phil directly rather than pissing off on here on the internet. The way I read this is that the knot we've been tying is essentially  sub par, therefore we now need to relearn a new knot which THEREFORE, my line sets are no longer valid to use. If I'm reading this differently, please correct me. A similar post was released a few weeks back and I had some input there which went no where and now another post is beginning suggesting the same thing. If I was to re do what I have with the correct knot, my lines probably would be too short.

           If we look at steels for instance, regardless of termination,( wrapped or crimped)  if the lines are pull tested to the desired lb rating your good to go for flying. Are we saying these same rules no longer apply to Spectra or equivalent? If the old knot passes the pull test, why shouldn't I be  good to go equally? However, when the ballot is cast the game changes here and if I was to use the old knot and something happens, where does the finger pointing begin? In other words, to stay compliant with the AMA rules I'm understanding that I have to abide to this new knot.

              This now makes me wonder who's going to police this new knot when we all are together and were ready to fly. Are we now going to assume everyone is in compliance?  I would just like to hear a little more input as to what is going on here and why the all of a sudden. Ken

Offline mike londke

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1468
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2017, 03:57:25 PM »
Ken I believe its because there is a proposal to make them legal in CLPA competition. They are revisiting terminations before all those beautiful stunt ships are on the ends of Spectra lines. I guess our knot was good enough for combat but not for them. S?P VD~ VD~
AMA 48913  USPA D-19580  NRA Life Member  MI State Record Holder 50 way Freefall Formation Skydive  "Don't let the planet sneak up on you"

Offline Dave Edwards

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2017, 06:17:26 PM »
To be consistent with the ss line specs in the rulebook, I would agree with the previous post that we should spec a line material, diameter and a pull test.  Line terminations can be recommended and even called out as examples in the rulebook (similar to wrapping ss lines is shown).  In the end, the specifc knot cannot reasonably be verified at the field and we should defer to the pull test/diameter spec.  As a CD, I could not expected to determine a specific knot requirement in pit checks any more than I can verify good crimps or line wraps with ss lines.

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2017, 08:25:18 PM »
                  Dave, anytime we've flown using these lines and there was an issue ( usually during a pull test ) all of us have inspected as to why the failure. I believe you were present during some of this as well. I even remember when some of us were experimenting a bit with the use of crimps and eyelets for terminations. It was  discovered that  the failure rate was higher than the questionable knot. The reasoning behind using a thimble on the plane end  was due to the point load on  the knot affixed to just a line clip . Failures were taking place at the plane end typically and rarely at the handle.  This essentially returned us back to the knot. There was mention of a sleeved typed termination in the other post a few weeks back when Phil mentioned the possible new knot intro. Apparently , there's a sleeve being used for stunt kites that were mentioned.  I've never flown a stunt kite so I'm not in a position to comment on how much they pull.  I also don't know if the same forces are at work in the event of a mid air. If this is an acceptable ruling to use such a termination, I'm perfectly fine with that if that's what it takes to pacify the stunt crowd. However, this is not what's going to happen as it will be demanded to be used for our use equally rendering all existing line sets inadequate.

                As I mentioned above, who's going to be able to police this, nobody. Dave you pretty much answered this yourself because there's just no way to tell what type is being used on this line unlike steels which are crimped or wrapped and can be visually verified.  I'm pretty much over it and I will loosen the belt a notch and inhale deeply. It certainly seems like I should get watching the video Phil linked and get busy .

Offline Target

  • C/L Addict
  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2017, 10:28:37 PM »
Personally if it were me,  Ken,  and a new knot came into recommendation. I'd think there would be a long period of overlap between the currently accepted knot, and the new knot,  unless it is proven that the currently accepted knot is suspect, which you know it's not.
Overlap in accepted methods is reasonable, in progress. I can see why you might be a little bent out of shape with so much time,  money and energy spent on your pre made lines. I doubt very much they would be not allowed. It's not reasonable.

My apologies for even posting in this forum, i looked in "new posts since your last visit", not even realizing i was in the combat forum.
My own question/curiosity is from stunt flying 1/2A planes,  be it in competition or sport, but not combat. And that's why i asked about the breaking strength of .008" wire..... my thought is that spectra is much easier to maintain than that thin wire. And maybe it's eventually going to be accepted by the full sized stunt cd's soon. Options are good.

I'm also interested in knots period, as this applies to my daily work,  and of course for the occasional fish i might pull on,  during the off hours offshore.

In short,  sorry for the intrusion into the combat specified topic.
I hope (and assume) your knots that work perfectly now,  will continue to be acceptable for use in combat.

R,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
AMA 5956

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2017, 03:31:56 AM »
                  Chris, in no way was anyone being intrusive in these posts.  I also don't know the names of all of the knots but this isn't the first time this has changed. Were all contributors but, I feel that the topic could've  been broadened initially including the subject of precision aerobatics as Mike pointed out. I certainly could've jumped the gun here for being misinformed due to the fact it's in the combat section. This is the second time this subject has surfaced within the past month which tells me this is a concrete issue.  While I agree with your thinking, in terms of what knot you could use, there's still a liability issue here that when you arrive at contest, someone is going to ask what are you using. I certainly don't need to be surprised if I attend one of these contest and I'm told that I shouldn't be using what I have.  I'm sure you know the old saying, " Fix it until it's broke".  I also carry steels with me but in short order, I prefer the use of the Spectra. The .25 size planes fly fine on steel, but I have found them to work with a slightly better edge for me using the Spectra. For me, it's more about the time to make these up, my schedule over the past 2 years offers little to no time and I try and get out when available. It's also not about just me as I have other members within my club which rarely post here that would be subjected to the same conditions.

Offline dave siegler

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1128
  • sport flier
    • Circlemasters Flying club
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2017, 04:15:09 AM »
To be consistent with the ss line specs in the rulebook, I would agree with the previous post that we should spec a line material, diameter and a pull test.  Line terminations can be recommended and even called out as examples in the rulebook (similar to wrapping ss lines is shown).  In the end, the specifc knot cannot reasonably be verified at the field and we should defer to the pull test/diameter spec.  As a CD, I could not expected to determine a specific knot requirement in pit checks any more than I can verify good crimps or line wraps with ss lines.

very well said Dave!

Also there is a problem.  Even if the new knot is better than the one in the rule book, there is a required one in the rule book.  If there is a problem and you don't use their knot, is the AMA going to back you up? 
Are you willing to take that chance? At our flying site, I cant.  The risk is too high.

It uses language "shall"   which is not a recommendation, it is a requirement.  Then the drawing show the wrong knot!  I used  and tested a single uni for a while before it was pointed out that I should be using a double,  the single tested out just fine, never breaking at the knot for me at least.   

Phil said "Some AMA Representative"  although I trust Phil, that isn't enough documentation because the rule book is specific about a particular knot.   

The AMA needs to get out of the required knot business and spec the safety limit, not the method. 
Dave Siegler
NE9N extra class
AMA 720731
EAA 1231299 UAS Certificate Number FA39HY9ML7  Member of the Milwaukee Circlemasters. A Gold Leader Club for over 25 years!  http://www.circlemasters.com/

Offline Michael Stinson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 07:08:57 PM »
The knot in the video isn't a figure 8 on a bight,  from what i can see. Similar,  but not the same.
Phil, is the figure 8 better than the knot shown on the video?  I would think it would possibly be easier to pull down smoother and easier than the knot shown on the video.
Thanks in advance and sorry to be a contrarian.
R,
Chris

That is the knot that Phil has shown for a few years and was the example I used except that I tied it on a bias (doubled the line).  With practice you can get it much smoother and a little smaller.  As you can see in the video, my hands were pretty banged up when I did the video.  It really wasn't meant for everyone to see it as much as to remind me how to do it after the winter off.  Sorry.  Mike Stinson.  mfstinson @msn.com

Offline Michael Stinson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 07:17:51 PM »
John.... I am loath to give ANY advice to a gent who could teach me so MUCH

I do NOT see a compelling reason to play with fishing line now that I have more or less mastered BUYING already prefect sets from some sources, or making my own terminated steel lines

That said, I have used Spectra DyNema (sp?) for some 1/2a stuff but the beauty there is one continuous line so only 2 terminations not caring about equal spacing (adjusted at the handle)

I did buy a 325Yrd roll of 60Lb Dynema stuff, and started at 70 foot lines trying to teach self to get equal +/- 1/8th lines... a task that for me is simple with MBS or Tom Morris 7 strand bulk lines,,,, and a pre determined goal of 58/60/65/ eye to eye length...in fact I can get easily within 1/16th with the steel and crimps....not so with the fishing knots no matter who's method I try to copy

Not sure where this advice is going cuz I am now side tracked by this thought;

I would pay a fair price for any cottage guy who advertises complete Spectra sets already terminated in 1 foot increment from 58' to 70' and the appropriate weight for the size model

Fred, I thought the same thing until the first line entanglement with Spectra lines.  My brand new lines were shredded but his lines were perfect.  Also, in the line entanglement,  I lost control ability.  He did not at all.  Mike Stinson

Offline Michael Stinson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 07:25:53 PM »
To be consistent with the ss line specs in the rulebook, I would agree with the previous post that we should spec a line material, diameter and a pull test.  Line terminations can be recommended and even called out as examples in the rulebook (similar to wrapping ss lines is shown).  In the end, the specifc knot cannot reasonably be verified at the field and we should defer to the pull test/diameter spec.  As a CD, I could not expected to determine a specific knot requirement in pit checks any more than I can verify good crimps or line wraps with ss lines.

Dave,

YOu have that right.  There is no way to measure the thickness at the field like you can with steel.  Last season I talked to several fliers on the committee to rewrite the Ama rules for lines.  After demonstrating both the Ama knot and Phil's knot tied on the bias, they agreed to push for Phil's knot tied on the bias.  But there is opposition to Spectra in other parts of Control Line that could push it to a recommended knot and diameter backed up by the pull test.  Sounds good to me. 

Mike Stinson

Offline Michael Stinson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Spectra Update
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2017, 07:30:04 AM »
I've been flying my 1/2A planes the last four years on 10# Spectra tied on the AMA recommended 5-turn Double Uni.  Last year I did a test on different tests of Spectra from 10# up through 60# test.  I think the 10# knot failed at 18 pounds weight.  It was an un-scientific test of me just making up two foot lengths of line for each test strength and then suspending barbel weights until the line or the knot failed.

So, I have not had a failure in four years using 10# test for sport flying, and have no qualms in recommending it.

Mark

Mark Mc,

We're you using the Ama knot?  The problem is not failures and you don't get them on the light lines.  The two problems I found were the knot slipping and closing the loop on a Fast Combat plane.  With the neutral changed by about an inch, things got pretty wild.  The other problem is getting a line to an accurate length.  Though, 1/2" off is really not that big an issue with a decent handle.  Mike Stinson 


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here