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Author Topic: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build  (Read 4251 times)

Offline richardm

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1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« on: October 26, 2018, 03:51:10 AM »
OK

Thanks to another forum member I may be making a box of parts into a FOX .36

The big combat class was never flown here in New Zealand so now I need to buld something to suit this motor, happy with using pacifier/bladder systems ( with that intake  :o)

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I am in the process of builsing a common New Zealand style model from my youth, English Dominator wing, OS19 on suction (Oliver tiger diesels shown on the plan were too hard to get and too expensive back then) that I will cover with monocote..............very typical of the era

Reliving my youth and realizing some dreams  H^^
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 09:27:06 AM »
I had and in some cases still have Fox Mark IV's.  They are very very powerful and somewhat heavier that the previous Fox & ST engines.

I would suggest something in the 450 to 500 square inch range for either Fast or Slow Combat.   Back in the day I was able to hit 100 MPH with a big Slow on suction or 115 MPH on a Fast with pressure.

Unfortunately, kits and published plans were fading out by that time.

I had an article on a Slow called the Dragon published in Model Aviation some time in the mid-80's.  It was a straight-wing that I later replaced with the taper-wing Monarch.
Paul Smith

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2018, 03:35:39 PM »
Thanks for that Paul

I suspected the older designs may not handle the weight and power, I am building one for a bit of fun flying and would prefer more traditional construction, balsa and hard wood kinda guy H^^
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2018, 04:28:57 PM »
Hello richardm,

One possibility is the Guillotine, 42" span and 465 square in wing area. I would use spruce for the spars and leading edge, though, and beef up the motor mount section a bit with thicker center ribs. Below is a photo of Jim Welch's model. Plans are available from Bob Mears at:

http://www.controllineplans.com/frameset2.htm

Video of Guillotine with ST G21 35:






Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 03:32:53 PM »
Thanks Chad

I looked at that site and of course perused a bunch, a 50 inch span Splinter sure caught my attention.............now to get that engine running
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 07:16:20 AM »
Take a look here
https://www.facebook.com/bob.mears.10/media_set?set=a.10201134603751700&type=3

You outa find something in there you like.

I have plans to most of them                 controllineplans.com
Home of the control line combat museum.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2018, 10:44:04 AM »
Boy, Bob very time I see that picture on facebook page it sure brings back memories and dreams of when I was much younger.  With my memory I can't remember if you are the tall one or the short one of the Mears brothers.  I do remember meeting your Dad James Mears many years ago at Tuscon during a combat meet.   Of course Riley hasn't changed much, but who are the characters in the picture?    H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline phil c

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2018, 05:20:19 PM »
Thanks Chad

I looked at that site and of course perused a bunch, a 50 inch span Splinter sure caught my attention.............now to get that engine running

Which FOX 36?  There were at least 7 different versions.  Earlier 36X, either ball bearing or needle bearing is a good vintage motor.  Quite good up to 400 squares, 40-42in. span.

The Splinter wasn't used much in competition because of the high aspect ratio.  It can be a bit fragile and needs a sheeted leading edge.

A MkVI is still fairly common, and ABC.  Competitive up to 500 sqares and 48-52in. span.  Again, a balsa plane needs a fully sheeted leading edge and even some webs between the spars.

A bladder is simpler to build.  A pacifier is easier to run(if you can find them mail order).
phil Cartier

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2018, 09:32:15 PM »
MK iIV Twin ball race iron piston steel sleeve big square hole for an intake

Just to fly for fun, I will try to track down some pacifiers, used them before and liked it ;D
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline phil c

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 04:11:43 PM »
MK iIV Twin ball race iron piston steel sleeve big square hole for an intake

Just to fly for fun, I will try to track down some pacifiers, used them before and liked it ;D

The Mk IV will work fine on anything after the late 60's.  It's about the same weight as a G-21 Superigre.  Some of the earlier planes work better on the lighter engines such as the early  Fox plane bearing engines or the needle and ball bearing versions of the 36X.    For sport flying go easy on the nitro or something might break.  95mph looks just as good to the crowd at 110.

I recently saw a post someplace with nothing to do with modelling.  Apparently Binky latex pacifiers with the original shape(symmetric bulb) are still available on the internet.,  Gerber First Essentials Soft Center Pacifiers Latex
phil Cartier

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 07:12:29 AM »
Boy, Bob very time I see that picture on facebook page it sure brings back memories and dreams of when I was much younger.  With my memory I can't remember if you are the tall one or the short one of the Mears brothers.  I do remember meeting your Dad James Mears many years ago at Tuscon during a combat meet.   Of course Riley hasn't changed much, but who are the characters in the picture?    H^^
I'm the taller one, and 3 years older.
Home of the control line combat museum.

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 07:16:11 AM »
The Mk IV will work fine on anything after the late 60's.  It's about the same weight as a G-21 Superigre.  Some of the earlier planes work better on the lighter engines such as the early  Fox plane bearing engines or the needle and ball bearing versions of the 36X.    For sport flying go easy on the nitro or something might break.  95mph looks just as good to the crowd at 110.

I recently saw a post someplace with nothing to do with modelling.  Apparently Binky latex pacifiers with the original shape(symmetric bulb) are still available on the internet.,  Gerber First Essentials Soft Center Pacifiers Latex
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combat-bladder-baby-pacifier-free-flight-pressure-fuel-system/172216355832?epid=1371059108&hash=item2818e50bf8:g:qfkAAOSwX~dWlFzN:rk:1:pf:0
Home of the control line combat museum.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 06:43:30 AM »
Apart from "buildling" you could just attack the Fox Mark IV to a Ukrianian fast airframe.

This picture was pre-engine, but it went very well.
Paul Smith

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 08:54:36 PM »
Apart from "buildling" you could just attack the Fox Mark IV to a Ukrianian fast airframe.

This picture was pre-engine, but it went very well.

Cheers Paul

The researching and building is part of the fun, the engine I am using was a box of bits until a kind soul on the forum helped me out ( H^^ to Motorman)
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline Cody bishop

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2018, 06:05:44 AM »
I would say either a mongoose two or a voodoo

Offline Harold Brewer

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2018, 10:13:29 AM »
Having run metal tanks and crankcase pressure in the early 60's, I'm not familiar with the bladder and the pacifier concepts.  Can anyone explain?

Best regards,
Brew

 H^^

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 04:02:29 AM »
The current thing is some sort of "balloon" tank, like a pen bladder, pacifier, or tubing bladder.  You can see it in this picture.  It's like a 1/8 ounce balloon pumped up with 3 ounces of fuel from a syringe. 

The long soft pushrod, included with the model, would not take to stress of a Fast combat engine so I added a pushrod tube.

Paul Smith

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2018, 10:24:14 AM »
Put that on a long-boom Sneeker and it will run with anything.
AMA 76478

Offline phil c

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 11:56:29 AM »
Bob, the things in the url look like pipette bulbs.  They used to come in two lengths.  The shorter one looked exactly like a Binky.  From the folks I've talked to that used the pipette bulb(I went to bladders long before) they didn't seem to last as long.  The Binky was always pretty clean looking, with little of the milky look to the rubber.
phil Cartier

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 04:02:04 PM »
Take a look here
https://www.facebook.com/bob.mears.10/media_set?set=a.10201134603751700&type=3

You outa find something in there you like.

I have plans to most of them                 controllineplans.com

I have emailed you Bob
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2018, 01:38:38 AM »
Well

Super Voodoo and 360 Splinter plans ordered

Thanks for all the input this size of combat model is new to me, locally it has always been .15 to .21 engines used.

May have to drag the big engine test stand out and get that .36 fired up................my neighbors love me.

 H^^ to you all
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2018, 08:48:35 AM »
Don't for get the ear plugs..    mw~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 04:36:00 AM »
Hi Richard
There are others in NZ flying Fox 35, 36 (and a 40C frame) powered models (will bring some along on Sunday to the stunt contest) I use a Tatone PeacePipe with muffler pressure or Tatone EM2 with muffler pressure often with a remote needle. Usually flown for fun or used to practice my pattern when its too windy. My son Otto is the one that really enjoys a big combat model with a 36 over a stunter. I remember 35 sized combat models were flown at North Shore Club back late 1970's (John Fleming comes to mind)
I built my own design back in the 80's and originally used the K&B 3.5's then swapped to the larger motors as they could be made quieter easier, especially with a 9x6 prop.
Also up-scaled other common local designs like the Spectre (Torbay club,  design by Mike Walters).
 Too many diesels died in my hands and the 35's have proven much more durable and easy with just muffler pressure .
Regards Gerald

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2018, 09:20:09 PM »
Hi Gerald

I look forward to seeing them, down in the Waikato when I was a lad hardly any one flew .35 models, all small diesels or .19 to .21 glow
Richard Mc Fadden

Offline richardm

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Re: 1980 MK IV Fox .36 combat special, what to build
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2019, 12:51:32 AM »
 <=

Thank you Bob Mears, I now have a Super Voodoo plan by John Jo and a bunch of pacifiers


While in the holding pattern I threw this up, APS Dominator, OS 19 steel fin and home brew venturie, 8X6 Yellow tornado prop and olive Solartex covering ( I had some OK)

Had to reduce throw, move cg forward, I had fun trying to keep up, the next project looks louder and faster.............I like that
Richard Mc Fadden


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