stunthanger.com
Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Combat => Topic started by: Marvin Denny on October 25, 2006, 07:09:14 PM
-
In the thread titled stooges, I noticed where some dislike using the thongs and one individual (supertiga) thinks that he may have been the individual who started it all. I can ASSURE you /David that you were NOT the initiator if the thong requirement. In the interest of getting history straight, it was at the 2nd Lincolon NE Nats when the thong was started (1981 or 82 I think) Another David (Sparky Heath) lost his handle during a line CROSS -- notice that it was NOT a tangle-- and the handle was pulled from his hand. The plane with lines and handle trailing behind departed the circle and headed toward the RC pylon racing area and the thongs of spectators there. Before the plane got that far, the lines with the handle trailing behind and below the plane struck some power lines that fed the National guard side of the base (tower, fire /rescue dept and lots of businesses) were immediately without power as transformer after transformer BLEW !! BOOM BOOM BOOM several times.
That evening MACA held their annual open members meeting and the "incident" was thoroughly discussed. It was decided that the need for some sort od retaining device (thong) was necessary and WOULD be imposed by the AMA safety and insurance boards IF MACA didn't act quickly. So, MACA imposed the thong measure that nighe and submitted an emergency safety rules proposal to AMA the next day.
Yhe next morning, I and my son David (not the sparky david) had thongs on all our handles and brought enough cord to supply anyone else that need to so equip their handles.
Phil You were there weren't you?
Bigiron
-
Had to be the 82 NATS as it was JJ's first. I remember the power outage after the explosions. The next year, 1983, JJ and I drove all the way to Chickopee. DOC Holliday
-
Doc, I could have gone and looked it up, but I was too danged lazy.
That was some display of pyrotechnics wasn't it?
Bigiron
-
Hi Big Iron, I wasn't at the '82 NATS. But the thong did come in in response to several incidents where pilots let go of the handle. I was under the impression that Mike Willcox had two similar incidents to Sparky's, also in the early '80's. I think the actual rule went into effect a bit later, maybe '85 or 6.
-
HOOO Boy!!! ;D ;D We were sitting in the shade eating lunch watching Combat with the Pratts when that happened!! Rather dramatic display! Good ole days when we could really see ALL the events.
Jim
-
WOW--wish i had been there to see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my handle let gos happened before 1974 and there was lots of talk by the older fliers on the subject of thongs in combat(Jim Ong was main one)---I promised to never let it happen agin and subject was droped--i soon moved from combat to girls---combat was more logical.
thanks for info ---i no longer feel guilty for causing something that restricts a good combat flier.
Realy wish i could have seen that in 81/82!
sounds like someting my younger self would have done on purpose
amazingly i survived my child hood!if your scared get out the way!
David
-
I feel that thongs are at times a problem that can cause a plane to crash or even fly away. In a line tangle where one plane is on the ground and the other one is flying it may be that the pilot with the plane on the ground needs to change hands or let go of the handle/lines to get out of the tangle but can't because of the thong.
My solution to this is, I made my thong with a quick disonnect. I used a thing made for keys, (you have two sets of keys that can be seperated with this coupler). I attatched one part to the handle and the other part to a strap on my wrist, when I need to quickly let go of the handle/lines or just to put the handle down at the end of the flight I unhook it, leaving the strap on my wrist.
Way back when this was first talked about I tried to make the rules include a provision for combat and racing that would require some sort of quick diconnect method but got nowhere. I called it a saf-t-thong, indicating that a thong that is difficult to get out of will cause a problem sometime.
There are lots of ways to make a saf-t-thong but remember, the thong must be able to pass the pull test.
-
Dan,
Could you expand on how a thong will cause a flyaway?
John
-
if one plane is on the ground and the other one is in the air there is a lot of strain on the lines of the one flying and may cause them to break. it could cause the plane to crash and both of those possibilities are much more likely to happen as the time goes on so the sooner the grounded pilot can unhook and untangle the better
-
I don't really care for thongs either--makes me feel like my opponent is giving me a perpetual wedgie %^
-
Dan mentioned his quick release safety thong which reminded me of the thongs I still have that were sold years ago. They had velcro strap that went around your wrist. It was very easy to get it off if needed. But, someone would not me use mine as they said it was not safe. Thing about it was it would pass all the stunt pull tests with ease, even with it on my wrist. They still would not let me use it. Later, DOC Holliday
-
if one plane is on the ground and the other one is in the air there is a lot of strain on the lines of the one flying and may cause them to break. it could cause the plane to crash and both of those possibilities are much more likely to happen as the time goes on so the sooner the grounded pilot can unhook and untangle the better
Dan is on the right track here. I believe the thong stated in F2d and quickly migrated into AMA, as almost every "safety" rule tends to do. The so-called "logic" that if anybody has initiated a safety rule, it turns into monkey-see-monkey-do.
While thongs prevent the rare case of a pilot letting go of the handle, they also prevent the clearing of line tangles. The prolonged line tangles, in fact, result in more broken lines and more flyaways. Unfortunately broken line flyaways are now much more frequent than dropped-handle flyaways ever were, hence the latest band aid, the centrifugal shutoff.
In F2d, the intential tangle has become an accepted manouver and is no longer even considered unsporting. The Russians pioneered a trim setup that allows the plane to do medium-size inside loops without losing altitude until opponent in taken to Earth. This is an upgrade from the old lazy eights.
-
I always ware a thong but it crawls up my b*t to much. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
-
Paul, flyaways, due to the flyer letting go of the handle, were not rare. At the '74 NATS there were at least 5 flyaways in the first 10 flights or so, including one nifty double one with the handles tangled together and going up with the planes. Something like 50% of the contests I went to in the late 70's, early 80's had at least one flyaway where the flyer simply had the handle pulled off his fingertips.
I don't recollect exactly when F2D introduced the safety thong. Seems like it was within a couple years of our rules. F2D certainly didn't start out with a thong rule. They did introduce the engine tether when too many people were building planes with weak motor mounts.
-
that was Lakecharles in 1974?---i remember that double flyaway i think---wow
my last year as a senior---my last real competition effort---got drunk to early--wound up 3rd--broke excalibur--had fun!
I survived my child hood and wana do it agin!
just looked at moms styrafoam ama official hat(still have it)and it says 1974!Lakecharles!that was the second lakecharles right?
I think i met you Phil c.
I know i met Phil G.
I was the crazy hippie kid with the big airplane.
we stayed in the green motor home and blue dodge van at the combat site.
David
-
If my feeble memory is still working, I believe that the safety thong rule was passed immediately after the 1987 Lincoln Nats. However, I admit a certain nostalgia ... we'll never see a show of pyrotechnics like that again. The sight and sound of four transformers blowing -- boom, boom, boom, boom -- is something you have to see to appreciate. MACA held a meeting while the Nats was still going on and the rules change proposal came out of that meeting.
--jt
-
I'm sure thongs came in well before '87, more like '74.
I blame the downgrading of Junior & Senior age groups from 16 & 21 to 14 & 18.
That encouraged indulgent fathers to turn 14-year-olds loose with high performance equipment. Perviously, they waited 'til the were 15 or 16 to let them pilot 40-Rats and Class II Carrier jobs. Sure, they always couild have let the youngsters drive the big rigs, but before, they could wait 'til they turn 15 or 16, the win the Nats.
I was sort of willing to wear the thing myself if that's what it took to have the kids wear 'em.
-
Of course thongs were in use far before '87. I meant: The AMA rule requiring thongs in combat came out of the '87 flyaway that caused the power outage in Lincoln. Thongs have been required in some NW contests since at least 1971, but that was only a local rule.
--jt
-
That is Correct about the mandatory use of the handle thong being the results of a flyaway at the nats. That very night of the flyaway, MACA members met and it was decided there and then to require the thongs the very next day of further competition, and an EMERGENCY SAFETY rules proposal was submitted to AMA sometime shortly thereafter to require them in combat. The main rush to "do something" was predicated due to the fact that if we (MACA and the combat fraternity) didn't show some responcibility and action toward preventing similar occurences in the future, AMA would do something even worse. Knowing AMA as most of us serious combat fliers did, and seeing their (AMA's) perpensity for "overkill" actions in the past, the usage of the thongs was the correct way to go.
My son and I showed up at the field the next morning with thongs on our handles, and enough clothesline cord for everyone else who wanted it or needed it.
Bigiron
-
A contribution (on the transformers, not the flying!) ;D
As an EE and power transmission guy of years ago, the bangs shouldn't have actually caused any serious damage to the system - but a lot of excitement, I'll agree :o There a procedure called "throwing faults" where you shoot a wire over a transmission line with a spear gun to check the protection circuits. It's pretty dramatic, especially on very high voltage - like 330kV lines
I haven't flown combat for 35 years or so, and we didn't use thongs then - and I do remember passing the handle from hand to hand to get out of line tangles
Charles
-
Charles, the power company's problem at Lincoln was that they apparently had faulty transformers or circuit breakers. I wasn't there, but several transformers blew up and/or tripped circuit breakers, resulting in a fairly large power outage.
-
My solution to this is, I made my thong with a quick disonnect. I used a thing made for keys, (you have two sets of keys that can be seperated with this coupler). I attatched one part to the handle and the other part to a strap on my wrist, when I need to quickly let go of the handle/lines or just to put the handle down at the end of the flight I unhook it, leaving the strap on my wrist.
Way back when this was first talked about I tried to make the rules include a provision for combat and racing that would require some sort of quick diconnect method but got nowhere. I called it a saf-t-thong, indicating that a thong that is difficult to get out of will cause a problem sometime.
I was at a Chicago contest flying against Larry Skelly (the one from Kentucky, not Paul) in Fast Combat. We had a tangle then a mid-air, my plane went down on the grass, Larry's was still flying, but it was inverted and he couldn't get it to pull an outside to do eights or loops. I ended up getting dragged around and around and getting the circulation to my hand cut off. My airplane got reelend in and was getting dragged around us. Eventually Larry managed to get the plane doing insides and center marshal Chris Gay came over with dykes and cuts off the strap (which was 3/16" braided nylon cord). That was scary.
Iskandar