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Author Topic: F2D Explained  (Read 1561 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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F2D Explained
« on: February 03, 2022, 07:24:27 PM »
While browsing the facebook I found this link.  It does work for me.

markrudner_combat.pdf

When menu comes up click on Combat 101: An introduction F2D Control Line Combat.    Didn't check to see if rules are current. D>K H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline phil c

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2022, 08:41:51 PM »
Mark's PDF is still mostly correct.  "Effective" mufflers had been added to the rules prior to 2003.  2003 put in a measurable 8mm exhaust size.
But further engine improvements immediately were worked on.  By 2008 the exhaust was reduced to 6mm to keep performance in check.  A Russian flyer developed a computer scoring system to keep track of scoring, randomly draw the matches, and other details.  It GREATLY simplified matching and score tracking, if anything in F2D can be called simple.

Automatic fuel shutoff's were, I believe, mandated in about 2008.  So far it is still in effect.  If a plane is cut loose or just breaks loose the shutoff has to be obviously slowing the motor before is leaves the flying circle.  Most flyers seem to have adopted centrifugal swing arm shutoffs.  Unless they are damaged in a collision they will work well enough to satisfy the rule, except when they don't.  In that case the judges award the flyer with a loss.  This has lead to instances of one flyer purposely manages to cut his opponents lines.  Depending on the site it may be impossible for the shutoff to work fast enough since the plane speeds up quite bit with no lines.

The event has been flown pretty much the same since 2008.  As a result, the number of contestants has not grown much, if at all.  A big contest with 30 entries takes at least 2 full days of dawn to dusk flying.  There will always be some 5% of the matches have to be reflown for varying reasons when the judges can't call a winner.  But it's still great fun to watch when you see two good pilots fly a nice clean match and don't require any "senate" judgements on who won and if a refly is needed.

If you want to get into it you might want to plan on 6 engines, spare parts, many, many propellors, lots of spare lines(I don't know if the FAI has outlawed Spectra lines.  Letting the lines get wrapped in a match the Spectra lines will usually lock of the opponents lines within one loop.) 12-24 planes.  Lots of trimming and solo practice to be able to fly the plane everywhere without looking at it all the time.

If you do start flying a lot of F2D planes get 100 sets of good ear plugs.  The noise is still a LOT.
phil Cartier

Online Paul Smith

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2022, 10:00:04 AM »
From what I've seen 5% refly rate is a very low estimate.

It's very easy to have the cut count 1-1 or 2-2 with equal air time.

Also, with the advent of ARF planes from Eastern Europe, I see reports of numerous triple elimination events with high turnout.   Trips used to just be TT thing.

https://www.fai.org/sites/default/files/sc4_vol_f2_controlline_22.pdf

Here is the current Holy Writ straight from Paris (France not John).

As I read it now, the shutoff just has to work, but with no defined distance or time.
Also, the mechanic MUST transfer the original streamer to the spare model, with no option to abandon the first streamer & deploy a spare.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 12:12:23 PM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline bob whitney

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2022, 02:53:10 PM »
it is said owning a boat is like just throwing $$$ in the ocean, F2D combat cant be far behind


« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 12:17:31 PM by Paul Smith »
rad racer

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2022, 09:20:33 PM »
It is said that the two happiest days in a sailor's life are when he buys a boat--and when he sells it.

Maybe the same is true of combat?  The happiest two days in a combat pilot's life are when the bank approves a loan for the imported equipment--and also the day when the bank tells him no more loans and no more combat?

Online Paul Smith

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2022, 12:18:00 PM »
it is said owning a boat is like just throwing $$$ in the ocean, F2D combat cant be far behind

Boaters seem to be better at attracting women.
Paul Smith

Online Paul Smith

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2022, 05:11:26 PM »
It is said that the two happiest days in a sailor's life are when he buys a boat--and when he sells it.

Maybe the same is true of combat?  The happiest two days in a combat pilot's life are when the bank approves a loan for the imported equipment--and also the day when the bank tells him no more loans and no more combat?

It's A Bad Day in Blackrock if you wired $50,000 to Russia, The Ukraine, or Canada for a shipment of model goodies.
Paul Smith

Offline Reptoid

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Re: F2D Explained
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2022, 01:03:25 PM »
     Some of the comments on here are really not accurate or relevant to actually flying F2D competitively. First of all; fear mongering about the situation in Ukraine as far as getting supplies at this point is speculation. I don't know anybody who sends anywhere near that amount of dollars for supplies at any given time. How about we just hope and pray that our friends and suppliers in Russia and Ukraine are able to stay safe and sound?   
     As for the expenses of flying F2D they are not much more (If any) more expensive than any other discipline of our hobby. I personally know and fly with regularly, several flyers in the MACA top 20 from 2021 (and other years) including myself. One of the flyers who was in the top 3 last year totaled 10 airplanes and severally damaged one engine. The engine was repaired for under $150 and the cost of ten airplanes is between $45-$55 each RTF; That's a total of $650. Throw in some props (maybe 15-20) at $3-$4 ea. and I bet a lot of you spent more than that on your discipline. F2D engines are very reliable if maintained and run properly. I have some that are 20 years old and have only needed new bearings occasionally as far as maintenance. (Bearings are less than $20 for both) The engines cost $200-$300 new and can easily be sold for $150-$200 used if maintained. Are there people who buy tons of engines and tons of airplanes? Yes, but it doesn't necessarily make then any more competitive.
    If you're not a serious traveling competitive F2D flyer, the cost of owning and flying (cost per minutes flown) F2D airplanes is probably way down the list.
If you are a serious competitive F2D flyer; the cost of travel transportation, motels, rental cars, entry fees, etc. far outweigh the concern about equipment, as it does for any competitive discipline.
   Bye the way; I owned a ski boat (inboard) for 15 years and used it a lot for water skiing. The cost to maintain that boat for 15 years consisted of oil changes, gasoline ( 5 gals/hr) and washing/ waxing it. When I sold it I got the same amount as I paid for it ..........so there's that
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882


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