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Author Topic: F2 Fast  (Read 1841 times)

Offline Gary_Barrow

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F2 Fast
« on: June 18, 2021, 05:57:12 AM »
How fast are the F2 fast flying these days.  I have some old .15s and I am interested but don't want to get my wings blown off.  I have some Cipolla's with big venturi's and maybe run them on 20 to 25 percent. 

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2021, 07:02:14 AM »
From what I see, F2d's built to current rule are slightly below 100 MPH.  The 6 mm exhaust and 5% nitro knocked 'em down a little, but not too much.

I'm sure some guys who really try can break 100.

The requirement that F2 Fast complies with current F2 specs makes it harder to use old stuff.
Paul Smith

Offline Reptoid

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 04:12:16 PM »
From what I see, F2d's built to current rule are slightly below 100 MPH.  The 6 mm exhaust and 5% nitro knocked 'em down a little, but not too much.

I'm sure some guys who really try can break 100.

The requirement that F2 Fast complies with current F2 specs makes it harder to use old stuff.
Haven't seen any that required "Current F2D rule" equip (6mm muffler and 5% nitro/15% oil) The original F2D fast Informal (gentleman's agreement) rules in meets I've competed in allow 2010 legal gear (4mm venturi, 8mm muffler, and 10% nitro fuel). Some have flown "outlaw F2D" on fast Friday at big meets allowing any venturi/muffler or not/ fuel. Personally not a fan of that one. Just don't see the need; A good 2010 legal engine (Fora, Zalp, Profi, Cyclon) will go at or near 100 with easy to obtain 8mm muffler, stock 4mm venturi, and 10% nitro. Trying to use other engines and fuel, props, etc. just causes headaches for new or retread flyers. You can easily find a good condition engine like I mentioned for half the price of a new one and sell your brand x to a sport flyer or collector. That means all the support accessories will fit and work in harmony (Plugs, props, mounts, shut-offs, lines, airplanes, etc)
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline phil c

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2021, 01:20:36 PM »
Gary, I'm not sure who or why the F2D Fast rules were changed.  They originally allowed 2008-2000 engines with the larger exhaust.  There isn't any significant difference between a stock older engine and the newer engines with the 6mm exhaust.

Phil C
phil Cartier

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2021, 03:50:28 PM »
I originated the event.

My intent was that "current F2D rules" means that the AMA will stay in step with the FAI.  It was certainly NOT to freeze the event at the time of the acceptance of the event.

The whole plan was to use THE SAME stuff in both F2d & AMA F2d Fast.  To do otherwise would imply carrying two sets of toys.
Paul Smith

Offline Reptoid

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2021, 11:22:23 PM »
I originated the event.

My intent was that "current F2D rules" means that the AMA will stay in step with the FAI.  It was certainly NOT to freeze the event at the time of the acceptance of the event.

The whole plan was to use THE SAME stuff in both F2d & AMA F2d Fast.  To do otherwise would imply carrying two sets of toys.

"I originated the event"  LL~Really?
In one post you state "The requirement that F2 Fast complies with current F2 specs makes it harder to use old stuff."
Then in a later post You stated that you intended it to keep abreast with current F2D rules.
Do you fly the event competitively any more?  I ask because I haven't seen you at any of the big meets I've been to and I don't see your name in the results from the ones I didn't attend,
Every F2D "fast" contest I've ever been to has allowed  8mm mufflers and 10% nitro fuel. Some have gone further (outlaw F2D) as I said above and allowed any 2.5CC engine, no muffler requirement, and any Nitro.
You don't have to take two kinds of "toys. Most fly the same set up or just change the fuel or muffler; your choice.
It does however allow new flyers and/or lower budget flyers an opportunity to compete with older engines/mufflers, etc.
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline phil c

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2021, 12:37:37 PM »
Agree, Reptoid.  I don't see any benefit for a non-Official event F2D Fast to restrict old equipment.  The newest engines are on par speedwise.  As far as the old engines any fitting the 8mm exhaust, stock venturi, and fuel at 10% nitro won't be any faster.

Now if they get the speed down to 85 0r 90 we'll have to experiment with venturis.  A lot of guys have no problem putting a smaller venturi on speed limit planes.  Some of the East coast guys even use RC throttles for instant adjustment.
phil Cartier

Offline Gary_Barrow

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2021, 12:27:43 PM »
Don,
I am not a keyboard warrior and you have not seen my name on any fast combat stuff. 
1.  I have a limited budget
2. I flew my first event a couple of weeks ago in Houston and I did not fly the fast event on Friday, although I could have thanks to Bob Mears offering to loan me a plane. 
3. I have not flow F2 fast
4. I am trying to figure out where I can get the most bang for my buck.  I am now up to speed on 75mph speed limit.  80mph will require I buy some fuel cutoffs.  I am flying ATA combat.  I want to be able to fly the most classes at each events.  So that why I am asking questions. 
5.  I probably don't have the resources to fly full bore F2D BUT F2 Fast is interesting is possible if I can use my old .15 stuff.   
6.  The main questions were:
   A. How fast are they flying on 52" lines - Lap time per second
   B. Can you use older equipment with big venturi and higher nitro (OR is that F2 fast outlaw)
 
I am just trying to get back into the sport and be as competitive at possible but I have limited time and budgets.  (and probably skill)



Offline Reptoid

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2021, 06:17:23 PM »
Don,
I am not a keyboard warrior and you have not seen my name on any fast combat stuff. 
1.  I have a limited budget
2. I flew my first event a couple of weeks ago in Houston and I did not fly the fast event on Friday, although I could have thanks to Bob Mears offering to loan me a plane. 
3. I have not flow F2 fast
4. I am trying to figure out where I can get the most bang for my buck.  I am now up to speed on 75mph speed limit.  80mph will require I buy some fuel cutoffs.  I am flying ATA combat.  I want to be able to fly the most classes at each events.  So that why I am asking questions. 
5.  I probably don't have the resources to fly full bore F2D BUT F2 Fast is interesting is possible if I can use my old .15 stuff.   
6.  The main questions were:
   A. How fast are they flying on 52" lines - Lap time per second
   B. Can you use older equipment with big venturi and higher nitro (OR is that F2 fast outlaw)
 
I am just trying to get back into the sport and be as competitive at possible but I have limited time and budgets.  (and probably skill)
On legal F2D lines 9 seconds flat for 4 laps is 100MPH. Most of the good flyers are going around that or slightly faster without a streamer on the new 5% nitro 15% oil fuel and 6mm muffler.
F2D fast most are going about the same speed using 10% nitro 20%oil and 8mm muffler or a legal F2D
Technically more nitro, bigger venturi, non std muffler, etc. would be "outlaw" F2D fast. Contest management would probably let you fly with it in F2D fast as long as you're around that speed. If I were you I would sell or trade the old stuff and acquire a couple old Fora, Profi, Cyclon, Zalp engines as then all the other gear works; i.e. mufflers, mounts, props, airplanes, shut-offs, fuel, glo-plugs, etc. Lots of the flyers have older engines they no longer use like those and with an 8mm muffler and 10% they are competitive.
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2021, 06:29:51 AM »
Why not just put the 6MM muffler (or an insert in the 8mm muffler) on the older engines and run the 5% and be done with it? Adjust the prop pitch/diameter  to be at a competitive speed.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2021, 07:43:57 AM »
I'm pretty sure if you show up with a 15 anything and it's not going over 100 mph, no one will care. So an old Nelson on 40% going 110 will get some backlash, otherwise, bring it and fly.
Home of the control line combat museum.

Offline Reptoid

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Re: F2 Fast
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2021, 02:53:27 PM »
Why not just put the 6MM muffler (or an insert in the 8mm muffler) on the older engines and run the 5% and be done with it? Adjust the prop pitch/diameter  to be at a competitive speed.

Best,    DennisT
Because when you put the 6mm muffler on it and run 5% it won't be competitive. The later engines have changes applied that make them compatible with the new rules (port volume/timing/ combustion chamber shape/etc.)
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882


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