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Author Topic: Shut-off for a suction fed profile. Can it be done? Need advice and ideas how.  (Read 1025 times)

Offline Michael Alurac

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While trying to bring 75mph slow combat to life here in So Cal the need for shut-offs has been expressed by the top local F2D guys due to the proximity of a major highway adjacent to our field that could risk the potential closure of our field if a fly-away mishap might occur potentially risking closing the field for all CL use. AMA requirements don't call for shut-offs in this class I know, but we're in California...

Would anybody have an idea for an easy to set-up shut-off that might allow for a profile plane on suction to be set-up with a shut-off? Any suggestions, drawings or pics would be helpful as I am planning to add 75mph Combat once again to the KOTRC.org Joust this coming August 10 & 11 and want to be proactive in this effort and look to the guys in this forum to share their set-up ideas. Although I did get one recent event in at the Palmer the need is there for shut-offs and I want to make sure to include the "run whatcha brung" pilots in that many fly suction-fed profile designs such as a Flite Streak or variations thereof. Is there a field build-able solution for this situation out there? Let me know if you've got some ideas to help bring and keep this fun event to life.


Mike

  
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:01:52 PM by Michael Alurac »

Offline Charlie Johnson

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The Athans Spring Thing should work.  Rather than have one end of the spring attached to the motor mount as you would on a bladder fed model just attach it to the exhaust port with a bolt through the rear muffler lug.  The spring will have to be short enough to expand to allow the fuel tubing to pass through without hitting the body.  Drill a hole through the body and attach the fishing line to the other end of the spring and run it out to the leadouts as you would with a normal bladder fed model.  As with the bladder system, the flying lines keep the spring open and allow fuel flow during normal flight.  Since the line to the leadouts will be on the bottom of the wing you'll have to install a pin in the spar to hold the spring open for fuel flow during starting and takeoff.  There are a number of flyers using this system at Whittier, take a look at the F2d setup and modify to work on your profile model.  Why anybody would use a profile model with metal tank in Speed Limit Combat is beyond the scope of this reply. 

Offline Paul Smith

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I'm afraid it's proven to be very hard to put a flyaway shutoff on a 75 MPH or suction-fed model.  A couple guys around here put a lot of effort into "getting legal" on AMA Slows and didn't have much to show for it. 

With suction it's hard enough to get a decent run anyway.  Adding a shutoff to the system is a deal-breaker.

People fly 75 specifically to avoid coming under the shutoff rule.  The slower planes have exponentially less line pull and thus less difference between normal and flyaway mode.  You need a significant amount of force to pinch a fuel line a substantial G-force to not pinch the fuel line.  F2D's flying at 100 MPH on 52' lines provide enough force to get it done.  Going under 75 MPH on 60' lines is double trouble.
Paul Smith

Offline Howard Rush

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Lopez and Rudner will know what to do.  Ask them.  We fly 80 mph combat here (measured with streamer off or on).  Everybody uses shutoffs.  They work, even with a misguided proscription against certain designs. 

Why use suction feed?  
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Howard Rush

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The slower planes have exponentially less line pull...

Was it your pilot or your political experience that affected your mathematics?
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Michael Alurac

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Thanks for the feedback so far and appreciate your response to this post. My original intention be known that I choose 75mph to avoid the shut-off rule but have found it not to be "Politically Correct" at our site.

I have witnessed flying in this class over the last couple of years at the Southwestern Regional Tucson AZ event ED'd by Jeff Hanaur with participants running profile designs running on suction so we would need to ask these folks why suction. They're having fun and participating just the same and are the kind of folks to "run what they brung". Since their field is an ideal location this event doesn't require shut-offs due to the speed limit as per AMA combat rules they don't use them. I am hoping to get those same guys and anyone else to come out and fly our events that at our field will be required to have shut-offs due to the close proximity of the adjacent heavily traveled freeway. I hope to engineer a solution to include these folks albeit very few but they're participating just the same.

Although I might be tasked with mission impossible the Athan's spring shut-off idea would seem to be the most logical place to start along with putting together something to reliably run on suction for R&D. All of this effort is to try to grow this event in So Cal dealing with our unique situation of sharing the field with some top notch F2D guys that fear a mishap could spell doom for our site.  It is those same guys that I will go to with this Athan's spring idea for this purpose to see what we can come-up with. For the last couple of years they have switched to magnetic and centrifugal shut-offs as I don't see the spring shut-offs in-use. I have one of Rich Lopez's old F2D combat planes from a couple years back with remnants of fishing line on the lead-outs that certainly seemed to be rigged at one time with a spring shut-off. Our local guys along with the folks posting here are brilliant and certainly we'll figure out a solution to work for these pilots to fly and grow our events.

Thanks again for your valued feedback and I'll share my results as they develop.  

Offline phil c

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The spring shutoff seems to work pretty well.  It has a fairly short travel so it's more sensitive to the plane loosing some line tension.  A bent music wire string-over-the
 wing, with a lever arm 5-6 in.   long gives a lot more leeway.  It's easier to adjust the tension too.
phil Cartier

Offline Larry Davis

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I used a version of Roy Glen's shut off that used a short set of lines connected to the lead outs (or lines) to the pinch mechanism on slow combat stuff the year it was required in slow. It was one of the few that worked reliably that I remember.
LD


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