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Author Topic: Cover material?  (Read 615 times)

Offline beercamel

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Cover material?
« on: January 29, 2020, 07:12:48 PM »
What is everybody using to cover their wings?  Besides silkspan and  monokote.. whats available?
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!


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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2020, 08:31:47 PM »
I use what is called doctor paper and mylar.   See finish section. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 07:37:37 AM »
What is everybody using to cover their wings?  Besides silkspan and  monokote.. whats available?

I use PVC often. It has a really low shrink temp. 100 degree or so. I use 75 gauge on combat planes. The stuff can be purchased at 100 gauge (which is heavy), down to 40 I think. I normally use 75.   I also use laminating film. It measures the opposite. 1.2 mil is really thin, 3 mil. is thick. I use the 1.5 on combat planes. the laminating film has its own glue, the pvc does not. I use 3m77 to glue down the pvc.  The great thing about the laminating film is you can usually go to any print shop and they will give you their end rolls. There's enough on there to do several airplanes.
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Online Motorman

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2020, 03:45:47 PM »
I wouldn't use silk span unless you want to fix it every time you land BTDT.  Silk, Sig Coverall, monokote all good.


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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2020, 01:24:01 PM »
I use PVC often. It has a really low shrink temp. 100 degree or so. I use 75 gauge on combat planes. The stuff can be purchased at 100 gauge (which is heavy), down to 40 I think. I normally use 75.   I also use laminating film. It measures the opposite. 1.2 mil is really thin, 3 mil. is thick. I use the 1.5 on combat planes. the laminating film has its own glue, the pvc does not. I use 3m77 to glue down the pvc.  The great thing about the laminating film is you can usually go to any print shop and they will give you their end rolls. There's enough on there to do several airplanes.

I am going to try this on an old 'junk' VooDoo I have..   sounds like it could be ideal for low cost expendables..


I wouldn't use silk span unless you want to fix it every time you land BTDT.  Silk, Sig Coverall, monokote all good.


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Do you have a supply source for silk?

I used silk years ago.. and I LOVE the look..  Things like monokote are strong and easy to apply.. BUT  I just do NOT like the look of it. In the 70's I had two different Types/classes of Combat wings..  1-Operational airplanes.. the ones I took to contests. they were beat up, ugly and most of all expendable...  2- The 'Pretty' ones..  the airplanes I built to look nice and fly nicely. They NEVER went to 'combat' unless they were damaged to point of 'ugliness'..

Silk is for the Type 2
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2020, 10:24:01 PM »
Here is plane covered with fabric store poly-ester cloth before and after covering with mylar. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Online Fredvon4

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 07:05:09 AM »
China silk (Habotai)

is relatively inexpensive at Dharma Trading

https://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/silk-fabrics.html?lnav=fabric_silk.html
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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 08:57:56 AM »
Here is plane covered with fabric store poly-ester cloth before and after covering with mylar. D>K

John,

Thanks for your reply!..  I am going to check this stuff out..  I have an old 'expendable' Voodoo' to try it on..   You said there is a 'HOW TO' in the Finish section of this forum?
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 08:59:29 AM »
China silk (Habotai)

is relatively inexpensive at Dharma Trading

https://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/silk-fabrics.html?lnav=fabric_silk.html

What do you use? the 12mm or the 19.5 MM color stuff?

Thanks!
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Online Fredvon4

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 10:05:02 AM »
no no no

first scan the site and as (NCIS New Orleans) King sez.... go learn things

so 5 MM  is lighter than colored 8MM......BUT  5MM takes a bit more Dope to fill the weave.....5 MM is only white at Dharma....colors are 8MM


IMO 5 or 8 end up same final model weight.....so if a solid color you like, but 8MM.....buy it.....GRIN

Dharma has excellent how to info on dying cloth

MM is their shorthand for:

What is momme weight? In simplest terms, momme weight describes the weight of 100 yards of silk, 45 inches wide, in pounds. So, if a fabric is listed with a momme weight of 8mm, it means that 100 yards of the fabric weighs 8 pounds. Many silk dresses and other silk clothing items will be around 8mm in weight.

next to learn is shrinkage......1~2% in width and 6~9% in length
so now you need cloth you can tell length vs width.....I suggest 2 yard or longer purchases....1 yard of 36" wide is a square....no orientation L vs W is possible

that said------beer camel
status #2 can be done a LOT cheaper and Easier than Silk n Dope
Bob Mears has a link somewhere in Combat on how he did HIS MUSEUM display crafts with poly/silk/doctor....span---- and then SLC* or doculam over the paper and visually looks like a silk n Dope finish

*Phil Cartier (Core house) supplied Super Lite Covering (SLC)


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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2020, 11:26:48 AM »
no no no

first scan the site and as (NCIS New Orleans) King sez.... go learn things

so 5 MM  is lighter than colored 8MM......BUT  5MM takes a bit more Dope to fill the weave.....5 MM is only white at Dharma....colors are 8MM


IMO 5 or 8 end up same final model weight.....so if a solid color you like, but 8MM.....buy it.....GRIN

Dharma has excellent how to info on dying cloth

MM is their shorthand for:

What is momme weight? In simplest terms, momme weight describes the weight of 100 yards of silk, 45 inches wide, in pounds. So, if a fabric is listed with a momme weight of 8mm, it means that 100 yards of the fabric weighs 8 pounds. Many silk dresses and other silk clothing items will be around 8mm in weight.

next to learn is shrinkage......1~2% in width and 6~9% in length
so now you need cloth you can tell length vs width.....I suggest 2 yard or longer purchases....1 yard of 36" wide is a square....no orientation L vs W is possible

that said------beer camel
status #2 can be done a LOT cheaper and Easier than Silk n Dope
Bob Mears has a link somewhere in Combat on how he did HIS MUSEUM display crafts with poly/silk/doctor....span---- and then SLC* or doculam over the paper and visually looks like a silk n Dope finish

*Phil Cartier (Core house) supplied Super Lite Covering (SLC)

Thanks for taking the time to answer in depth!

As I said ..  I have two types of combat wings.. type one and type two..  the type one was the aircraft I used to compete with way back in a galaxy far,far , away...  'Expendables' , aircraft I could afford to lose in a fight. The type 2 were the combat wings I use like a 'stunt' aircraft..  I flew them for basic pleasure of flying a spirited model airplane.. and they would NEVER go to a contest with me as I would never risk them. I had a GORGEOUS Sterling Super Swoop that was covered with RED silk that I loved to fly.. Unfortunately it was destroyed in a PCS move while I was in the USAF.

Right now..  Monokote IS an acceptable solution for Type 1..   although I am VERY open to easier/better options..   


When I graduated college in 1978 and went into the USAF to fly I quit flying models..  I was in the USAF from 1980 to 1989, then to USAF reserves.. and an airline career..   As I get to the mandatory retirement age (17 months and counting..) I am getting back into control line.. A LOT has changed (and much not for the better.. ) and I want to 'catch up'..  The people here are definitely helping me do that!

ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2020, 04:24:42 PM »
have a look at these. 90% of these are covered with laminating film. The colors are sprayed on the back side with simple Rustolium enamel paint....LIGHTLY. The silkspan looking ones are sprayed with white primer on the back...LIGHTLY. No extra glue is used. The paint doesnt seem to effect the glue. The clear planes are just plain laminating film. 

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Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2020, 04:33:04 PM »
Notice the Super Swoop. It's laminating film, dusted on the back side with orange, scotch bright the blue area's on top, painted with blue rustolium, then polly urethane on on top of the color. Looks just like the box. Even the Prop!
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Online Fredvon4

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 04:47:53 PM »
that said...I am bailing out due to strokes and no fly site and no kids interested

I have fer cheap:
Mongoose old Consolidated....1970s....and modern Black Hawk version
Sneeker FliteLine kit
Big Iron Veco kit
Winder Sterling kit
Equaliser RSM laser cut
Jerk Line Special RSM laser cut

various
Core house versions of Texas Slow
one or two Pat Johnson cut Howard Rush Nemesis II short kits
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 05:01:52 PM »
that said...I am bailing out due to strokes and no fly site and no kids interested

I have fer cheap:
Mongoose old Consolidated....1970s....and modern Black Hawk version
Sneeker FliteLine kit
Big Iron Veco kit
Winder Sterling kit
Equaliser RSM laser cut
Jerk Line Special RSM laser cut

various
Core house versions of Texas Slow
one or two Pat Johnson cut Howard Rush Nemesis II short kits

How much you want  for the Winder and Big Iron kit?
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Online Fredvon4

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 05:26:09 PM »
Veco Big Iron and Sterling Winder on way to da Beer Humper  fer cheap

I highly recommend copy each kit and build the copy......but that is me...trying to build a 40 year old kit is frustrating IMO
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2020, 05:35:35 PM »
Veco Big Iron and Sterling Winder on way to da Beer Humper  fer cheap

I highly recommend copy each kit and build the copy......but that is me...trying to build a 40 year old kit is frustrating IMO

Thats what I intend to do..  Copy and preserve the original kit.. 
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 08:47:42 AM »
https://vintageperformancemodelairplanes.com/collections/control-line-combat-kits-19-35

This is the easy way. Really nice kits. I've built several of his kits
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Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2020, 10:48:29 AM »
Notice the Super Swoop. It's laminating film, dusted on the back side with orange, scotch bright the blue area's on top, painted with blue rustolium, then polly urethane on on top of the color. Looks just like the box. Even the Prop!

That is a NICE looking wing..  Mine was red silk, Under structure Painted Red..  so that looked dark red.. with Blue trim around the perimeter (No Scallops)..  I sure miss that airplane..
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!

Offline beercamel

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Re: Cover material?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2020, 10:53:49 AM »
https://vintageperformancemodelairplanes.com/collections/control-line-combat-kits-19-35

This is the easy way. Really nice kits. I've built several of his kits

Bob,

So TRUE...  but there something mystical digging through an old original kit..
ALL AIRSPEED and NO HEADING is how most people plan their lives..   PICK a HEADING!.. And you eventually get to where you want to go!


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