Author Topic: Sterling Winder Plans? (Read 13431 times)

beercamel · « **on:** April 21, 2016, 02:07:47 PM »

Anybody have a set of plans for the Sterling S33 'Winder" combat wing from the mid 1960's?

Thanks

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2016, 03:32:37 PM »

Quote from: beercamel on April 21, 2016, 02:07:47 PM

Anybody have a set of plans for the Sterling S33 'Winder" combat wing from the mid 1960's?

Thanks

Try Barry Baxter's plan service he at least has accurate plans that you can scratch build one from.

beercamel · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2016, 03:42:18 PM »

Quote from: dennis lipsett on April 21, 2016, 03:32:37 PM

Try Barry Baxter's plan service he at least has accurate plans that you can scratch build one from.

Thanks for the reply.. but I don't need or want a hard copy for $14.00 plus shipping..( probably a total of $18.00 to $20.00) when I can print them on my own printer for about a cent.. these plans are legally public domain now, so there should be a LEGAL ..and free.. PDF or image file around for them..

Additionally.. If I was going to buy a set.. I would buy from the AMA..

john knoppi · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:28:36 PM »

pm sent

beercamel · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2016, 08:46:22 PM »

Quote from: john knoppi on April 21, 2016, 06:28:36 PM

pm sent

Replied!

Paul Smith · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2016, 06:24:08 AM »

Based on what the copy shop charges me for a print job the size of a model airplane, $14 to $18 is an OK price.
I can beat it by taping together small sheets that I print at home, but ink cartridges cost me $26, so the UPS shop is my go to place.

Bob Mears · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2016, 07:46:11 AM »

I've bought several sets of plans from Baxter. Well worth the $ just to hope its worth his time to keep producing them.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2016, 10:48:26 AM »

I have purchased several sets of plans from Barr. Those who provide a good service will fade away if we do not support their efforts. Barr has provided plans to Buildrightflyright for his combat kits and are excellent as well. When I started Combat Graffiti, Barr helped by making a data base sorted by date of design so it was easier to know where the 1963-1964 cutoff was for many models.

Ken

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2016, 11:18:46 AM »

I second the good comment for Barry. Nice plans and fast service and he has stuff than no one else does.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2016, 12:59:44 PM »

I too have bought from Barry and have never been dissatisfied with them. Of course I'm old school in which there were no written instructions unless it was a Sterling kit in those years. Barry has very fast turn a round also.

beercamel · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2016, 03:05:52 PM »

Quote from: john knoppi on April 21, 2016, 06:28:36 PM

pm sent

John,

I don't want seem inpatient.. but I have not heard from you an I am not sure you received any of my replies..

BC

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2016, 03:55:53 PM »

if you want to be cheap, Baxter has done the work for you. The wingspan and area are listed there....I think the wingtips are from a cereal bowl. If you want more than that, buy plans.

beercamel · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2016, 08:33:14 PM »

Quote from: Ken Burdick on April 25, 2016, 03:55:53 PM

if you want to be cheap, Baxter has done the work for you. The wingspan and area are listed there....I think the wingtips are from a cereal bowl. If you want more than that, buy plans.

Please don't be rude and insulting.. .. and don't lecture me.. 'to buy plans'... I did NOT insult or chide you, please show me the same respect..

Chad Hill · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:09:09 PM »

Hello beercamel (great callsign, by the way!),

You probably already know that the Winder had a nasty habit of folding its outboard wing after a few turns.

I added a plywood doubler behind the LE in the center section to fix that problem. Just my $.02-

Best,

Chad (Boot Hill)

Andre Ming · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:27:06 PM »

Interesting tidbit:

A C/L enthusiast over on the RC World Control Line forum indicates that the original Winder was developed in the mid-1960s by a fellow from Sweden for FAI combat, thus was a smaller 15 sized airplane. He even posted some plans of it and indeed, the Sterling Winder looks like an enlarged version of it. Wonder if T. Prather simply up-sized the Swedish FAI Winder, including "re-using" the name? OR, did the Swedish fellow downsize the Prather Winder to FAI size and re-use the name? Hmmmm. Inquiring minds want to know!

beercamel · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:34:05 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on April 25, 2016, 09:09:09 PM

Hello beercamel (great callsign, by the way!),

You probably already know that the Winder had a nasty habit of folding its outboard wing after a few turns. I added a plywood doubler behind the LE in the center section to fix that problem. Just my $.02-

Best,

Chad (Boot Hill)

Thanks Chad! I heard rumors about this but never actually talked to somebody who experienced it.. I will consider your recommendation..

I got the call sign right after Gulf War 1.. I was flying in a USAF F-16 unit and there was a little .. lets say... 'incident'.. at an RAF O club during one of our post exercise celebrations... pertaining to numerous pints of beer, many shots of whiskey, and a piano that did not survive the night.. several chairs and tables were also 'Morted'.. the fire did not destroy everything.. and we paid the damages.. but there were people who did not see the humor of it all.. ... and the call sign stuck..

BC

beercamel · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2016, 11:47:52 PM »

Quote from: Andre Ming on April 25, 2016, 09:27:06 PM

Interesting tidbit:

A C/L enthusiast over on the RC World Control Line forum indicates that the original Winder was developed in the mid-1960s by a fellow from Sweden for FAI combat, thus was a smaller 15 sized airplane. He even posted some plans of it and indeed, the Sterling Winder looks like an enlarged version of it. Wonder if T. Prather simply up-sized the Swedish FAI Winder, including "re-using" the name? OR, did the Swedish fellow downsize the Prather Winder to FAI size and re-use the name? Hmmmm. Inquiring minds want to know!

I heard it the opposite way! LOL.. I have no clue which is true..

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2016, 10:30:45 AM »

Sorry there beercamel, I didn't intend to offend you. I looked around to see if I could find the plans someplace but I didn't connect to any PDF. I know a couple of kit collectors and can see if they have one if you're interested.

(all mine shed the outboard wing in short order) add CF.

Ken

beercamel · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2016, 11:29:09 AM »

Quote from: Ken Burdick on April 26, 2016, 10:30:45 AM

Sorry there beercamel, I didn't intend to offend you. I looked around to see if I could find the plans someplace but I didn't connect to any PDF. I know a couple of kit collectors and can see if they have one if you're interested.

(all mine shed the outboard wing in short order) add CF.

Ken

Thanks for the effort!..

They shed the wing!.. all of them! Sound like lack of torsional rigidity.. where wast the point of failure? did you notice any flutter before it failed?

BC

Chad Hill · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2016, 12:07:45 PM »

I built my first Winder (stock kit) about 1970, with a crankcase pressure hard tank using a G21 35. On about the third flight the outboard wing blew off just to the right of the motor mount and center boom. No advance warning that I remember. I rebuilt it and scratch built several more using a 3/32" plywood LE doubler in the center section and switched over to pacifier pods. No more problems.

The Winder was very nose heavy with a G21 and required quite a bit of tail weight on the booms. Using the plywood LE doubler, it was possible to carve a recess for the motor into the balsa LE, which helped. But I eventually switched to ST C35s because of the weight. The plane was not as fast but turned much better. Then I discovered the Tyrantula 2 and stopped building Winders.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2016, 12:25:47 PM »

Being a dumb kid, I had no idea the design was faulty and just built it like they said. The super thin airfoil and balsa spars sure didn't help. I would use 3/8 wide x 1/4_ spruce spars and then ca or epoxy to the underside a good 6" in both directions. They really don't fly all that well, but will snap the wingover great.....which is why the wing snaps.
Reinforce the heck out of it....use a ply web or CF. anyway, get the thing up to 120 and it will point and shoot pretty well as long as it balances correctly.

Let us know how it fly's

Ken

Chad Hill · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2016, 04:15:06 PM »

The one that folded:

Chad Hill · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2016, 04:18:43 PM »

Winder wing with pacifier pod ribs pinned down on plans. Spectrum on bottom of stack. The repaired Winder, now with a pacifier pod, above the Spectrum. VooDoo above Winder. On the top of the stack is a Laser, a design popular in Detroit in those days.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2016, 12:21:45 PM »

Has any one thought of contacting Terry P. an getting the true story. I know my Winder did not fold a wing using the best Fox I had. What bI remember was I had to cut the controls down to less than 10 degrees or it would chase you across the circle. But the Big Iron was my plane of choice until the special built Johnson blew the bottom engine mount off the plane with the side crank case with it.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2016, 01:53:40 PM »

I was not there so I cannot swear to it, but I have heard that Terry Prather was not flying a Winder when he won the Nats.

beercamel · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2016, 11:15:01 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 27, 2016, 12:21:45 PM

Has any one thought of contacting Terry P. an getting the true story. I know my Winder did not fold a wing using the best Fox I had. What bI remember was I had to cut the controls down to less than 10 degrees or it would chase you across the circle. But the Big Iron was my plane of choice until the special built Johnson blew the bottom engine mount off the plane with the side crank case with it.

I have not seen him on any forum.. does anybody know how to get in touch with him?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #26 on:** April 28, 2016, 10:23:32 AM »

There is a Prather Products that does RC boats and parts. Could that be him?

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2016, 04:16:32 PM »

Yes, that's him

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2019, 10:51:33 PM »

Search the pdf plans service at Hippocketaeronautics site and you will find what you’re looking for.
They have both the fast and the FAI versions available for free download.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2019, 10:43:16 AM »

Why not buy from what used to be Baxter's site?? I think Bob Mears has the site now and help keep the service going.

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2019, 10:09:15 PM »

I'll try to PM you with a copy of the PDF. We cant get it to post on the site.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #31 on:** October 10, 2019, 07:49:14 AM »

Plan via hippocketaeronautics.com...

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #32 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:45:19 PM »

@ 100% the sheet size is 42.4 x 20.2. There should be no problems. If you notice, there are some reference dimensions on the drawing. Take your scale.

I've never had an issue with downloads from Hip Pocket.

I do my plotting at Fed Ex / Kinko on their large format plotter. Self-Serve.

afml · « **Reply #33 on:** October 10, 2019, 10:38:42 PM »

"Anybody know the wing span?"
42 1/2"
Now SOMEWHERE I read that Terry's model had a wing spar made of spruce to keep the wing from folding.
My buddy & I, in our MUCH younger years, built them just like that and never had a problem with the wing folding.
Hitting the ground and each other....YES!

But folding wings.......No.....
"Tight Lines!"

Wes

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #34 on:** November 04, 2019, 04:43:32 PM »

I have two sets of Winder Plans and a Sterling Winder kit on the shelf. I built 2 and never finished a third that I started. To tell you the truth, the Nemesis II is a better airplane than the Winder. When I found that out, I built three Nemesis II models and never looked back at the Winders. I will have to try the spruce spar though on my last Winder kit......sounds like it might work. Using Super Tigre G-21 engines on pacifier tank.

phil c · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2019, 07:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on November 04, 2019, 09:36:05 PM

I've got a Winder kit coming and will beef up the right spots. I'm sure if Terry had CF laminate back then he would have used it. I don't really care how it loops and such because, it's being built for a speed event to challenge Satan.

Motorman

I think the Winder has more wing area than the Satan. Enough to keep it a couple miles an hour slower, anyway. I love to see these speed videos where fliers are half a lap ahead of the plane and then chortle over a fast time.

To get anything close to a true, repeatable speed you have to keep the plane down around 7ft, certainly no higher than 10, turn around in one spat facing the plane with your hand in front of your chest. Anything above 15ft. is just wishful thinking.

Rudy Taube · « **Reply #36 on:** November 21, 2019, 03:54:23 AM »

Hi Wes in Reply 37, I posted the spruce spar issue on another thread some years back, it may be the one you read?

At a contest deep into the last century, I asked Terry why his Winder never folded while others did. ANS.: "All mine have spruce spars". Some of us were occasionally faster than Terry, but NOBODY turned tighter than he did. He was a very talented flyer and difficult to beat. I know I never came close to beating him, I was but a pawn in his chess game!

On a related aside: Terry was also an excellent RC pilot. One day he brought out an RC winder with ailerons. We did not have a radar gun, but all agreed that it was wicked fast. The plane was almost out of sight before he could turn in around. He could barely control the plane due to having way too much aileron and elevator (both in travel and in size) for the speed the plane was traveling. I'm not sure, but I don't think he had a throttle on the engine, it was his stock CL combat setup without the drag of the lines! We all, including Terry, had a good laugh at his wild flight of many exciting recoveries.

Terry went on to have great success at RC F1 pylon racing (I being another pawn in this too

) and RC boat racing. Terry was one of those talented pilots that also always had his planes (and boats) and support equipment in excellent condition. I would put Terry in the same all-star league as two other pilots I had the pleasure to fly with; Phil Granderson and Dave Gurikie (SP?). They were all excellent pilots, and wonderful artists as well. Even their combat ships were always beautiful. My hats off to them all!

beercamel · « **Reply #37 on:** January 28, 2020, 08:10:56 AM »

Quote from: Bob Heywood on October 10, 2019, 07:49:14 AM

Plan via hippocketaeronautics.com...

THANKS!!! This is perfect!!

As I approach mandatory retirement from my Airline job.. I look forward to flying these models again!..

kevin king · « **Reply #38 on:** January 25, 2021, 12:48:11 AM »

I bought my we winder plans from Tom Dixon