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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Combat => Topic started by: John_Craig on December 05, 2009, 05:58:05 PM
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Now that I have a few combat engines (35), I would like to build combat planes for them . My parameters: balsa, classic looks, good flying, able to run well om suction, Baxter plans?. I already have a voodoo, a saucer to finish, & plans for a super combat streak.
Does someone have some other suggestions.
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Netzeband's Equalizer is a classic combat plane that didn't get too much play. It is a bit bigger than a VooDoo, much thicker wing, and lighter sheeted LE. Flys very well, but you might want to extend the booms a couple inches for better balance if you use a heavier(9oz) engine.
If you want something neat for a lighter engine(36X) try Scarinzi's Super Satan(add some 1/4 sq. spars so it doesn't blow off a wing).
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Not sure if you want to stay with a boom model but the Flitestreak, Ringmaster, Mongoose are all fun to fly with a 35.
Which 35's do you have?
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This is a good chance to design something of your own, like most of the combat flyers of the golden age.
36" leading edge stock.
Engine against the LE.
Chord as required to get the area you want. Cool-looking wingtips.
Tail long enough to make it balance.
An airfoil like other combat jobs - thin to go fast or thick to turn tight.
Despite the propaganda to the contrary, you don't need a degree from MIT or Purdue to do this.
Most matches are won by engines that start on one flip and run fast & smooth. Not high-zoot aero engineering.
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Despite the propaganda to the contrary, you don't need a degree from MIT or Purdue to do this.
Most matches are won by engines that start on one flip and run fast & smooth. Not high-zoot aero engineering.
Pauls is right in the degree, but I have to say that most of my wins owe a lot to having a better plane. More span and wing area let you outmaneuver the other guy, as long as the motor is up to the job. Dialing in the controls and trim to suit your flying style is essential too.
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here are the .35 combat planes from the magazines. All are on my Combat CD.
Apteryx 1972 AAM Aug p15 46.00 348.00 .35 Combat 823 Mellen, Bob
Bell P-63 King Cobra 1969 FM May p18 48.00 490.50 .35 Combat CF171 Micchia, Vince
Big Iron 1962 AM Dec p23 38.50 360.00 .35 Combat 1262 Berryman, Carl
Black Widow 1963 MAN Feb p23 30.00 255.00 .35 Combat A-16 Ceriko, John
Blitz 1964 MAN Jul p11 35.00 326.00 .35 Combat 33A Scarinzi, Larrry
Bumblebee II 1976 MA Jun p47 44.00 348.00 .35 Combat 148 Cartier, Phil
California Girl 1994 FM Aug p76 54.00 600.00 .35 Combat CF941 Cartier, Phil
Canadian Combat design 1958 AM Apr p29 24.00 216.00 .35 Combat Moore, Ian & Troyer, John
Chinese Bandit 1966 AM Annl p25 38.00 363.80 .35 Combat 66 Williamson, Harry A.
Clipper 1974 FM Aug p34 35.50 302.00 .35 Combat CF342 Wiley, Bill
Com-Bat 1959 MAN Apr p14 29.00 250.00 .35 Combat 57 Laumer, Keith
Combat King 1959 AM Jun p18 39.00 390.00 .35 Combat 659 Ehling, Frank V.B.
Combateer 1952 AT Feb p44 33.00 300.00 .35 Combat 252 Young, Harold R. & Huiet, M.L.
Demon 1964 MAN Aug p16 35.00 328.00 .35 Combat A-34 Wooten, Riley
Equalizer 1961 AM Jun p25 39.00 362.00 .35 Combat 661 Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Fast Blasta 1977 MA Jan p25 45.00 480.00 .35 Combat 170 Wilkens, Dick
Fleetwon 1959 AM Feb p18 38.50 440.00 .35 Combat 259 Peru, Bob
Fleetwon 1960 AT Annl p52 38.50 440.00 .35 Combat 259 Peru, Bob
Flexi-Bull-It 1956 MAN Mar p18 36.00 320.00 .35 Combat Vandesshel, Van
Flipper 1 1956 FM Sep p22 46.00 379.50 .35 Combat Full Size Parts Ure, Vim H.
Fox Feathers 1971 MAN Dec p12 37.00 280.00 .35 Combat 91 Shane, John & Brownfield, George
Foxy 1953 MAN Nov p15 30.00 243.75 .35 Combat Aldrich, George M.
Geophysical 1985 MA May p72 41.00 408.00 .35 Combat 475 Driskill, Larry & Hunton, John
Gotcha Super Slow 1995 FM Oct p48 41.50 460.00 .35 Combat CF977 Cartier, Phil
Greased Lightning 1956 FM Jun 44.00 0.00 .35 Combat CF137 Scarinzi, Larrry
Guided Missle 1959 MAN Oct p28 36.00 315.00 .35 Combat 63 Wooten, Riley
Guided Missle 1961 MAN Annl p58 36.00 315.00 .35 Combat 63 Wooten, Riley
Half Fast 1955 MAN Apr p9 32.00 264.75 .35 Combat Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Hatchet 1960 FM Ap-My p28 41.00 184.50 .35 Combat Scarinzi, Larrry
Killer Saucer 1976 MB Feb p34 22.00 69.00 .35 Combat 2762 Evanson, Howard G.
Kite 1961 AM May p24 35.50 525.25 .35 Combat 561 Mackey, Charles A.
Love 1966 AM Annl p25 37.50 436.00 .35 Combat 66 Williamson, Harry A.
Master Killer 1982 FM Dec p36 40.00 380.00 .35 Combat CF618 Jo, John
Matador 1975 FM Jul p44 42.00 336.00 .35 Combat CF376 Lopez, Dick
Missourian 1960 AM Jul p23 30.00 360.00 .35 Combat 760 Umbright, Gene
Needham Combat 1958 AM Nov p10 28.00 266.00 .35 Combat Needham, Ron
Nemesis II 1972 AAM Aug p14 39.00 339.00 .35 Combat 822 Rush, Howard M.
Oklahoma Twister 1960 AM Oct p30 38.00 315.50 .35 Combat 1060 Berryman, Carl
Phoenix 1991 FM Apr p40 42.00 450.00 .35 Combat CF853 Baxter, Barry
Pirate 1955 FM Jun p11 0.00 0.00 .35 Combat
Quicker 1957 MAN Mar p14 36.50 328.50 .35 Combat 18 Wooten, Riley
Quicker 1960 MAN Annl p54 36.50 328.50 .35 Combat 91 Wooten, Riley
Raunchy 1964 MAN Apr p25 35.00 353.50 .35 Combat A-30 Maers, James
Raven 1971 MAN Jun p19 28.00 266.00 .35 Combat Full Size Parts Melhuish, Ross
Riot-Act 1968 AM e Jan p16 34.50 342.12 .35 Combat Longhurst, Andy
Rongeur 1979 MA Dec p32 48.00 374.00 .35 Combat 284 Rudner, Chuck
SCALE-2 1982 FM May p29 47.00 460.00 .35 Combat CF598 Cartier, Phil
Scrambler 1972 MAN Jan p19 40.00 293.75 .35 Combat FSP01723 Domina, D & Imbriaco, F
Scrapper 1960 AM Aug p30 36.50 307.00 .35 Combat 860 Cowart, Jim
September Warrior 1963 eMA Nov p334 30.00 0.00 .35 Combat
Slingshot 1961 AM Nov p27 40.00 371.00 .35 Combat 1161 Mears, Jim
Slo-Moe 1970 AAM Nov p34 34.00 340.00 .35 Combat Silva, Bob
Slo-Motion 1977 MAN Jan p11 44.00 340.00 .35 Combat FSP01773 Cartier, Phil
Snipper VII 1976 MB Jul p34 36.00 267.50 .35 Combat 7762 Allen, Bill
Specter 1968 AAM Mar p22 38.00 351.00 .35 Combat 368 Hay, Dan
Super Satan 1967 MAN Sep p17 42.00 349.00 .35 Combat 71 Schaaf, Paul H. Jr.
Super Twister 1967 MAN Feb p12 36.00 314.00 .35 Combat A-64 Berryman, Carl
Super Voo Doo 1981 MA Feb p40 39.50 381.50 .35 Combat 324 Jo, John
Swoop 1961 AM Feb p26 34.00 340.00 .35 Combat 261 Carpenter, Bill
Tyrantula II 1971 MAN Jul p13 38.00 272.00 .35 Combat FSP07711 Granderson, Phil T.
Whatizit 1958 MAN Jul p16 35.00 785.00 .35 Combat 48 Wooten, Riley
Winder 1968 FM Nov p16 42.00 238.50 .35 Combat CF154 Prather, Terry
Bee Ware 1977 MAN Jun p27 42.00 311.50 .36 Combat 287 Keeler, Ira B.
Bird of Prey 1990 MA Jan p56 53.75 565.00 .36 Combat 640 Baxter, Barry
Bosta 1973 AAM Oct p79 47.00 483.50 .36 Combat 1034 White, Neal
Checkmate 1982 MAN Apr p53 36.50 332.50 .36 Combat FSP04822 Jo, John
Faitility 1977 MA Aug p30 37.00 280.00 .36 Combat 196 Buckstaff, Sherwood
FAWF 1980 MA Apr p44 40.75 419.30 .36 Combat 294 Pape, Gene
Gotcha 1981 FM May p35 48.00 505.00 .36 Combat CF570 Cartier, Phil
Gotcha Psycho 1999 FM Jul p56 48.00 504.00 .36 Combat CD089 Cartier, Phil
Jerkline Special 1960 AM Jun p36 38.50 375.37 .36 Combat 660 Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Killer 1971 AAM Sep p26 34.50 315.00 .36 Combat 912 Mathews, Melvin
Miracle Worker Combat 1969 AAM Annl p34 32.00 285.00 .36 Combat 692 Blum, John D.
Mirage 1977 MA Aug p30 33.50 385.00 .36 Combat 196 Buckstaff, Sherwood
Ninja 1976 MAN Jun p10 40.00 317.50 .36 Combat FSP06762 Gimbel, John
Phantasy 1975 AAM Jan p48 42.00 320.00 .36 Combat 153 Berryman, Carl
Predator 1997 FM Jan p75 52.00 468.00 .36 Combat Mears, Jim
Predator Slo 1997 FM Jan p75 52.00 520.00 .36 Combat Mears, Jim
Scorpion 1973 AAM May p43 41.00 317.00 .36 Combat 543 Niebuhr, Tom
Toothpick 1971 AAM Jan p24 42.00 294.00 .36 Combat 112 Tyndall, Dick
Undertaker 1985 MA Oct p65 45.75 417.25 .36 Combat 489 Thompson, John
Voodoo 1961 MAN Jul p11 36.00 330.00 .36 Combat 84 Wooten, Riley
Voodoo 1962 MAN Annl p54 36.00 330.00 .36 Combat 84 Wooten, Riley
Tom Wilk
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Please remember that these suggestions are for sport & fun. I enjoy building as much as flying. Thomas demonstrates the problem, so many choices so little time. I am asking for advice from everyones personal experience. " When I was young I really had fun building & flying a ____ but beef up the ______" I have both the BB & plain bearing ST 35, an OS 35H, a Fox 36, and a K&B 35. I have a Ringmaster & Flitestreak to fly. I need to finish the Mongoose. Thank you Phil for your suggestions, Gotcha plugger, & Streak III. A friend has spoke highly of a Half Fast.
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G21 35:
1) Nemesis 2: Easy to build, high performance. Probably the best all-around balsa combatter of the era.
2) Guillotine: Slower, but a real tight-turner. Use spruce for the 1/4" L.E. Flies good with or without the flaps.
3) Bosta: Super performance for the era, but very labor intensive for a combat bird.
4) VooDoo: Use a Nemesis 2 stab and booms. Use a bladder. Simple and flew well.
36X or ST 35C:
1) Sneeker: Long boom version. Good all-around performer.
2) Tyrantula 2: Great performance. Make the two outboard center section ribs a thicker airfoil so that a bladder tube can be used. The pacifier pod weakened the structure. I added a small L.E. plywood doubler in the center section behind the 1/4" spruce L.E.
3) Super Satan: I never flew one, but they say it was super for the time. Looks very labor intensive from the plans for a combat bird, though.
Just my 2 cents...
Chad Hill
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4 cents, counting mine.
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Chad,
The Super Satin is a piece of cake now. Lazer Works has most of the balsa parts lazer cut for less than $15, the only balsa they don't supply is the LE, TE, and sheeting. Plywood booms are included, and I believe the bell crank mount. Then all you need is a set of plans from Barry, and some hardwood mounts
Leonard
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Leonard, put that OS 35 AX on a Fast bird and tell us about it...
Chad
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Chad,
I'm waiting for a wide open venturi, hope to have it soon.
Leoanrd
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The empty carb hole isn't big enough?
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Leonard, I sent you an e-mail. Try the nylon spacers in the hardware section at Lowe's. You can fly it tomorrow in that wonderful 80 degree weather and report back by sunset D>K
Chad
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Chad,
Received the WFO venturi for the 35AX and ran it today, results were about the same as an old Nelson on the same plane. The only real difference is the OS gets better milage. Plane was an old Viko fast, fuel was 10% nitro, 22%oil, and a 9x6 Taipan, speed was 106mph. Engine ran good the whole time. I think the engine will pull a bigger prop unlike the Nelson, so I thing I can get a little more speed out of it with a 9x7 or 8x8. Plus I could always add more Nitro., and cut down a little on the oil. I also ran an old Voodoo today with a G21 35, which hit 107mph with the same fuel and a 9x7 prop.
Leonard
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Leonard, thanks for the update. How did the speed hold up in the turns? I wonder how the 35AX would do with a Schimitar 8-6 or APC 8-6? Maybe 8-7s?
Some of the guys here scoffed when I said I remember getting 110 with Voodoos using G21s. I know that was with 8-8s, back in the days when some thought flat out speed was important (laugh), but it might have been on .015 lines instead of .018.
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Is your times/speed with or without a streamer. We would shoot for speeds between 110-115 mph without the streamer. Still get 100+ with it. The Tigres were the engine in this area for awhile. Still used Fox's for awhile and still do. HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR
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The first question in this string was about what to build for combat. Honestly it is hard to beat a Yankee Nipper and the plans are available on the Brodak site as a download. Some good construction ideas if you want to try foam wings and the wing is about the right size for the engines you are running.
Bob
PS If you find cutting your own foam a bit daunting there are some great wings to be had from others on this board... I just enjoy the aspect of doing it all myself.
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How big is the shaft on the 35AX? if it is still 12 mm it may not last too long running wide open in a combat plane. The G-21's would break 2-3 flights after you got a couple of really sensational runs. One excellent run in the first round, then a couple runs with trouble setting the needle valve, and then blooey.
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How big is the shaft on the 35AX? if it is still 12 mm it may not last too long running wide open in a combat plane. The G-21's would break 2-3 flights after you got a couple of really sensational runs. One excellent run in the first round, then a couple runs with trouble setting the needle valve, and then blooey.
I've heard that a lot, and don't doubt you for a second, but I have a hard time understanding why. My brother and I used Tiger G21s in combat for several years and never broke one. Used to blow Foxes with regularity, from Blackheads to 36X's to Rat Race .40s. After them, the Tigers seemed bulletproof. We used pacifier pressure, generally ran 9x7 or 8x8 props, maybe the revs weren't as high.
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Yes, the shaft on the AX is still 12mm. As for the G21's I broke a few of those myself, but I always figured it was the Dremel work I did on them. All in all the only issue I had with the G21's, were the stock bearings.
Leonard
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from what I understand about single piston, overhung shaft engines, they have critical vibration frequencies. You can see this when you run up a Fox 35 or almost any RC engine. They hit a vibration peak around 7000-7500 rpm, and again around 15,000 rpm(Fox 35's generally won't go that high). I suspect the Tigre's had the same problem. A good one would be running right in the 14-16000 range. The vibration can fatigue the crankshaft really quickly. The Fox MkIII, and IV also needed crankshaft work(polishing out the machine marks on the inside and around the port) to help keep them from breaking.