News:



  • April 25, 2024, 07:51:23 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?  (Read 2149 times)

Offline Peter Deane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« on: December 01, 2006, 09:09:54 PM »
Hi folks

Ive enjoyed reading the NthWest diesel combat website for technical tips but am wondering if theres any guide on flying tactics for newbies - standard manoevers, tactics, do's and donts to flying so that you can fly a reasonably successful bout.

I remember avoiding line tangles and how to get out of them was an issue but that is about it .

Appreciate any pointers.

Thanks

Peter

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2006, 12:24:52 AM »
I think your best shot is to ask one of the more experienced folks to help you "mano a mano". Many will be willing in order to get a new flier going. I flew with Rich "von" Lopez a bunch of times when learning. We'd mix it up for a while and he'd cut me almost at will (surprise!); then he'd fly gentle, open maneuvers and say, "Come and get     me". We'd keep flying until I could get a few cuts, and then he'd turn up the flame a bit more. Use streamers and make it as realistic a practice session as possible.
(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
AMA 495785 League City, TX

Offline minnesotamodeler

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Me and my Chief Engineer
    • Minnesotamodeler
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2006, 02:09:38 AM »
One skill you will find very helpful is flying by feel, "eyes off", so you can watch the other guy's plane, not just glance at it.  Not as difficult as it sounds, and it's something you can practice solo.  Just look over your shoulder during a loop and concentrate on how the line pull feels. Scary at first but the skill comes quick.

Also, figure out what your "lag" is, and aim accordingly.  When I first began combatting, I consistently hit about 8 ft. behind the streamer! I found I had to aim at the bellcrank to hit the last half of the streamer. When I noticed my "hits" creeping up the streamer I adjusted my "bullseye" to match.  Pretty soon I was able to aim at the string and hit the streamer.  Never got much more accurate than that but was reasonably successful and had lots of fun.

--Ray
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
AMA902472

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2006, 03:34:49 PM »
Some standard advice for newer combat flyers-
Don't hit the ground.
Don't maneuver when you cannot see the other plane.
Don't pull sudden maneuvers.  Doing weird things makes it just that much harder for your opponent to keep clear of you

Practice flying eyes-off a lot.  Do it until you can fly a four leaf clover that way and do figure eights both directions without watching the plane.  You want to learn this so you can fly the match while keeping track of the other plane without worrying about yours.  Flying behind your head and other tricks in a match is a good way to serve up cuts to your opponent.

Trim the plane so it doesn't do weird things.  Get it straight.  Get the tip weight and leadouts right.  Adjust the balance point, control travel, and stab throw for a stable feel.  The plane has to go where you point it, other wise getting cuts is mostly luck.  For practice, trick up a special plane trimmed tail heavy and with too much elevator throw and practice flying that precisely.  It will make a competition plane feel much easier to handle.

Eventually, you WILL hit what you look at.  Flying for cuts, look only at the tip of the other guy's streamer.  If you watch his plane you will hit it.

Do a lot of cloud flying.  Try to hit a cloud from every direction(all eight ways) without watching your plane.

Learn how low you can be and still pull an outside loop.

As Ralph said, if you have a flying buddy, fly lots of practice matches.  That means preplanning the match, talking about what you are doing/going to do, and practicing specific moves.  When you just go out and tear up the sky you usually tear up some planes too.
phil Cartier

Offline Peter Deane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2006, 07:27:09 PM »
Thanks everyone -  looks like Im going to have to sweetalk my favorite combat guru..into some training flights..

Whats the standard protocol for getting out of line tangles? or isnt there one?

Thanks

Peter

Offline minnesotamodeler

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Me and my Chief Engineer
    • Minnesotamodeler
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2006, 09:33:12 PM »
Most basic is: Reverse the direction that got you into the tangle, i.e. if you were doing outsides when you tangled, go to insides.  Another equally important: Don't crash!  People sometimes give up on their planes when tangled and only try halfheartedly to keep it up; but you can maintain control under some pretty adverse conditions if you really try.  Stay close to the other pilot and keep the planes close too, and concentrate on staying out of the dirt. If the other guy crashes, do lazy eights while he tries to unwrap the lines. Best of all, stay out of tangles in the first place (not always possible; it takes two).
  DO NOT jerk the lines; that's what causes cut lines and flyaways.
--Ray
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
AMA902472

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 01:56:38 PM »
MinnesotaModeler's advice is good.  Here is a little menmonic(from my flying models column) that sometimes helps:

If I'm standing on the left and flew under him, fly an inside around him-  L U I

If I'm on the right and flew under him, fly an outside around him.  R U O

If I'm on the left and flew over him, fly an outside around him  R O O

If I'm on the right and flew under him, fly an inside around him  R U I
phil Cartier

Offline Peter Deane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 05:04:23 PM »
That does the trick - thanks!

Peter

Offline Jerry Marquardt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 02:47:39 AM »
        Who has the best control line airplane kits ?   Does any body have a Ringmaster Kit ?

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2006, 03:06:16 PM »
You want a Ringmaster for combat?  Best to try something else.
several of the smaller kit cutters have Rings.  I don't think any of them are bad, but not having seen them all I can't say which is the "best".
phil Cartier

Offline Howard Rush

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7812
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2007, 02:05:57 AM »
There is a bunch of good advice above.  Another thing I think is helpful to beginners is to keep the airplane high.

Before a match I often ask my opponent to tell me which way to turn if we get into a line tangle.  Most guys will cooperate and help you get out of a tangle. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline W.D. Roland

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1152
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 12:53:02 PM »
i have been debating wheather to post this or not
hope i dont loose friends over it--sorry guys-its kill or die.
probably will never fly combat agin so here goes.
combine this with others advice.
not aware of current rules so adjust for them
make sure you really want to do these things--your a winner or your not--you live or you die
 kill or be killed--ruthless attitude during match--you have no friends while the CLOCK IS RUNNING.
you must be a killer or you will not win
always fly at 11/10ths even in pratice--you will fold wings-you will dig dirt out of the intake--build lots of airplanes.

RULE #1(one)
IF YOU LOOSE a match or even win you must be willing give your opponent(even if you loose to him)and other fellows your airplanes and equiptment so they can continue.DO NOT wait to be asked--bring it to them.set it up start and needle it.supply your fuel props ect-DO NOT make them have to set it up.and if controls are set up like i like they will be amazed at what it can do--explain to them what and why.understand that being human some people are to hardheaded to accept the above rule.even if they say no do it--its amazing how many refuse and then run to the handle at the last second!have it ready for them.if your out spend the rest of day helping others

 
side thrust---use more than enough so in line tangles yours over powers opponent--ignore tangles and concentrete on cuts&kills--at this point its almost over and this is your last chance usualy. if opponent goes down fly high--almost straight up so his lines will slide down yours--reach inside his lines(from outside) with other hand and pull your handle out(thong? and all)--make sure you can fly with both hands--at this point match is over--time to be friends and help each other agin--carry cutting pliers-cut you own lines when needed-with out hesitation.do it.
should be able to control airplane with 10-20 twist in your lines-may get real stiff though--move that hande.

elevator travel---all you can get even to the point of stalling the wing and then some--use enough tip weight to keep it from rolling in.get all bellcrank movement possible- use long control horns 1 1/2+inch for stability and small handle--90% movement of handle should not run controls out of movement---your hand is the control stop--if you run out of travel it will upset the airplane.

use less pitch and more dia on props -extra dia reaches out futher for cuts/kills---lower pitch will pull you back to speed if you have to do 180 /stall it ect--you wont lose hardly any level speed.

when your going to get cut pull your hand in or out to get out of line of fire.if you are going to make a cut make sure you hand is even with opponents at the right moment.

pratice pumping the airplane in consecutive outside loops---do this by moving hand out at top of loop and pulling hand down to you side on down side of loop-when done right the airplane will gain speed--rapidly.
 when you can do it and have 6in of ground clearance at bottom this is a verry good defensive move that can be turned offensive when hes where you want him.KILL HIM.
this move is good when pinned down in level flight--expessily at end of first level lap(go).
same inverted--just cant pump it.

build constantly--2 or 3 on the board allways.
fly every day---bull bats/chimney sweeps will come out late evenings--good pratice--they will chase you--follow them--if you hit one you both lose--dont be afraid to hit one--build lots of airplanes.pratice flying kneeling down-sitting down-laying down even on your stomach-eyes closed--under you off arm-hand behind your head- from launch until engine runs out.never tryed between my legs.


if you pratice with friendly combat you will not be able to do whats needed to win at top levels--like pratice in a race car on dead tires--when you have good/new tires you wont reach their max level of addhesion.it teaches you the wrong things.

i dont think i will ever compete seriously agin--just for fun with Dad -Son-friends.unless ama fast makes a comeback as a vintage friendly thing with no winners or trophys.

I love combat to death
               David

David Roland
51336

Offline Bob Disharoon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 448
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2007, 05:38:16 PM »
Try the Voodoo  get very good plans off ebay for 10 bucks....an. older .19 should push it fine....I put landing gear on one ,balanced it, and practiced...but this was a fox 35...once I felt secure, took the gear off..well..you know the rest...good luc, BOB

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4986
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2007, 08:00:23 PM »

   Stand on their foot, put your elbow in there face, and do a bunt around their lines ? ? ?

   ACTUALLY,if you know how tight your plane turns,if you stay above that hight,its harder to hit the deck.
   If you hang it on a line below that hight , it SHOULD clear the deck.

   Hit full down, if you loose it inverted.

  And practise AVOIDING and ESCAPING line tangles.

  If you can stay airborne for the whole bout, your on to a good start at least.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 09:02:34 PM by Matthew Spencer »

Offline Richard Edwards

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2007, 03:04:32 PM »
supertiga ............ do I know you as you seem to have my beliefs in flying combat except the giving away of equipment unless it is to a member of the team or club you are with .......... go for the juguler everytime even in practise cos' the day youstart flying friendly is the day to hang up the handle. I learned this after going to Europe for the first time and flying in a contest in Genk there most of the Europeans did was take a cut and bellcrank you which normally left their model reusable and yours broke in half when you went up with the second model (I am talking FAI combat) the opponent did the same as in go for the jugular.
 All that said I wish I was still able to fly combat unfortunately my age and health stopped me from being as limber as I used to be I still love to fly though but I got the most enjoyment from combat there isnt anything quite like that 5 minutes of big time adrenalin rush.
 Incidentially the reason I went to Europeto fly combat was I am English now transplanted stateside.
 Sure wish some of my old English or Europpean flying friends or others  mw~  read this maybe I might get a rise out of them.

 LL~  HB~>  n~

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: Combat Flying Tactics for Newbies?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2007, 09:04:01 AM »
Why not go to the Corehouse site and see what is there.  I think it is listed in the vendors section, Have fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here