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Author Topic: Combat Cats  (Read 2775 times)

Online Dan McEntee

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Combat Cats
« on: July 13, 2017, 11:23:57 PM »
   As a kid I fancied myself as a potential combat flyer. We built Combat Kittens, and Goldberg Lil Satans a lot 'cause we couldn't afford the big stuff. I have been collecting classic combat kits over the years and one of my favorites that I wanted as a kid was the Combat Cats. I have an unmolested example of the kit but never really explored it. I just purchased a Walter Umland version of the model second hand, and in looking at the plans, noticed that the engine mount is offset upwards and shows a hard tank. No mention of pressure. Not being too sure of the date of production, I couldn't find any dates on the instruction sheet, but saw that the address for Top Flite used the old two number postal code, no zip code, so I think that zip codes came along in 1964?? I didn't know it was that old. And surely thought it came about when bladders were in use.
   I plan on building the Umland models, and he shows the original nose and an "in line" nose. I figure that the original nose with the offset up thrust line was just to get the engine in line with the way you have to mount the tank. I would like to keep it original with the offset mount, but wonder if that causes any unusual trimming issues? I'll probably power it initially with a Fox .35 stunt and then drop in a Fox .35 combat special, since they share mounting hole dimensions. I have a Johnson CS and maybe even a Torp.35 that is mentioned on the instructions and will give them a try if they share the same mounts, or I can maybe set it up with universal mounts? The box says that it has a "Frise type elevator." Anyone got any history on that? I'm guessing some one named Frise first used an all flying elevator? And am I correct on the time period? 1965 or earlier? I need to find the time to go back to Riley Wootens big history of combat thread and see what lies there. If it predated pacifier tanks, it sure has a modern look to it, and that rakish, angled outline is what I always liked about the airplane. This will all be just about fun, and maybe attend one of the vintage combat get togethers like there have been recently.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 10:40:22 AM »

I had what maybe was the first Combat Cat kit( it was a double kit) from Charley's Hobby Shop.   Power was the then new K&B 35.   That was when I learned about pressure and hard tanks.   It was the start of 1962 and I was staying at my oldest brother's place.   They were covered with Nylon for strength and finished as close to the box art as I could get.  Remember this was back when we wanted combat planes that looked good.   Yes they were built box stock and flew great for me as I didn't fly combat much back then.   This was the year the reporter was at the circle at the old KCK City Park circle and he took a picture of my brother launching the Cat.   They were big planes compared to a VooDoo.   Anyway that is also when I learned the new K&B 35's were not good for durability for combat.   I went through two cranks, broken at the intake port before I got my Fox Combat Special.   I can't remember what happened to them.   I do know that I used the Veco 3 1/2 ounce tanks on them with stock vent, over flow and fuel pick up.   But what did I know about that pressurized stuff back then.   Pacifiers weren't in use yet.  I believe both the Combat Cats and K&B 35 came out about the same time.   By the way in the 70's we used Combat Kittens for practice using the Golden Bees.   

Yes the Flying Stab was first used on the Cats as far as I remember.  For some reason I don't remember why the Cats were so easy to fly as the first VooDoo I built was a hand full until I moved the the push rod out further on the control horn and that put movement to less than 15 degrees up and down.  Then came the VooDoos, Sneakers, Demons and Big Irons.   Best set up I had in 64 was Big Iron with a Johnson Combat Special that had some tuning done to it.   Made it past first round in combat at the Grand Prairie NAS Nats of 64.   Riley put me out in second round. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Terrence Durrill

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 04:23:09 PM »


      I can verify that the Combat Cat double kit was available in 1964.  While stationed aboard the USS OPPORTUNE (ARS-41) at the destroyer piers / Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, Virginia, I purchased one double Combat Cat kit at the Norfolk Naval Base Hobby Shop.  They were constructed with Elmer's White Glue and covered with parachute nylon  / Aerogloss clear dope.  I used 3 1/2 oz veco metal tanks.   I flew mine with both the K&B .35 greenhead and the Fox .36x needle bearing combat motor.  Personally, I didn't like them that much...as they were too big and compared to the Voodoo.....slower than I liked.  I sold my Cats to a flying buddy in 1968.       D>K       H^^

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 06:31:24 AM »
The Top Flite Combat Cat came out just a few months after the Carl Goldberg Voodoo.  Priced at two for $4.95 they easily beat the $2.95 Voodoo in sales.  Goldberg very quickly matched the price with the Double Voodoo at $4.95.

I built a dozen Cat and more than a dozen Voodoos.  The Voodoo had the stabilator first, or at least first among main line kits.

With the weight of a G21.35 the extra wing area and thickness made the Cat a MUCH better model than the Voodoo.  The Voodoo was good with the C, the Johnson and other light engines.
Paul Smith

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 09:33:58 AM »
The reason I know the Cats were out in early 62 was my Dad passed away in May of 62.  The K&B 35 was only high speed engine in the display case when I purchased them.  My first VooDoo was 63 and I folded the wing on it because I ran fuel pick up through leading edge which after that I learned to modify tank like Riley showed.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 11:51:44 AM »
A lot of planes folded due to hogging out spars & LE to fit fuel tanks.   One of my first tools was a BIG Weller soldering gun, which I still use today, 60 years later.  I was actually still able to buy tips at Acco Hardware.  I always move the vents, just because I can.
Paul Smith

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 03:46:34 AM »
The Combat Cat was one of my personal favorites, Dan.  I never found the offset engine thrust line to be a problem at all; perhaps you just get used to any difference that might exist.

I used a metal tank and ran crankcase pressure with both Fox 29X and 36X engines, and outran SuperTigre powered Voodoos and similar planes, but my engines were definitely first class and burning 30% nitro fuel.

My good friend Dave Kruse - aka "Monoline Pete" - used them for several years, with considerable success.  His "victims" included Nats winner Bill Carpenter at the '63 Nats ...

Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 07:37:39 AM »
All of our F2D airplanes come with an offset engine due to having to run a muffler. It doesnt seem to effect the airplane enough to worry about. I mount my streamer on the bottom thinking I'm offsetting top thrust with some bottom drag.
 
Home of the control line combat museum.

Offline Bob Mears

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 07:39:23 AM »
Home of the control line combat museum.

Online bill bischoff

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 12:50:16 PM »
I think "Frise" elevator means that there is some surface area forward of the hinge pivot. Most combat designs had the hinge pins at the very LE of the stabilator.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 05:58:31 AM by bill bischoff »

Offline James Holford

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Re: Combat Cats
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 12:28:21 AM »
Pat King sells a Laser cut Combat Cat kit :)
Jamie Holford
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